I will be the first to admit not having much hands on experience with T's, but something does not look right to me on this front pad. Is it just me?
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I will be the first to admit not having much hands on experience with T's, but something does not look right to me on this front pad. Is it just me?
Indian? Certainly looks a bit "off". But the receiver body has been properly milled it seems.
How does the rest of the rifle look?
The rest of the rifle is in pretty good condition - it is a T Less Telescope.
Better monitor with which to view I am on now.
Very "mue-gelly" front pad! If the spigot face wasn't spot faced, i'd have guessed it had been made with a dull file. Not yours, I hope! Or if it is, it was "such a deal"!
It looks to me like it's been removed and someone has set about it - none too carefully - with a linishing wheel and rounded off all the corners and edges. I'd say that some cack-handed Indian workshop has linished out the previous stake marks. Like JM says, the important spot faced spigot looks like it was machined properly, albeit a bit rough after all these years, as per H&H
I've seen a few like this before & they were indeed all Indian rifles, although I must admit this pad takes the biscuit. I've seen a nuber of Indian rifles that were converted to Mk1/2 spec & that had all the original British wartime markings linished off them......& looked to have been done with the pads still on!! Charnwood had a quantity of them some years ago, including mutilated LB & Trials examples......
ATB[COLOR="Orange"]
Re the Indian No4T's Roger, while the collectors groaned a bit about the condition and the telescopes it seems that once both the rifles and scopes were stripped, properly assembled and finished off properly, they were as good as the next rifle. Agreed?
I think that if you countersunk those screw slots slightly deeper, made the finish a bit better, re-sweated the pad etc etc then sent it to BDL for a full phosphate and sunkorite paint, it'd be back to pretty well normal. Or just ask him to do it......... Sorry about that Brian if you're already up to your, er......., bottom in alligators!
Based on the condition of the rifle, is it safe to assume that a previous owner removed and sold the front pad and that another owner purchased one as a replacement? The other problem I found was that somebody used phillips head screws on the cheek rest.
The good news is that it does have the Enfield inspectors mark on it and it is an early Savage MkI (matching).
---------- Post added at 06:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 PM ----------
I have been pestering the hell out of Brian over the past few months, here is how I picture Brian every time I call or e-mail him: :banghead:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
You're not pestering me. It's what I'm supposed to be here for. That pad is certainly ugly. Yuck. Folks sending repair work just need to be patient because with the declining US$, I'm spending allot of my time doing export paperwork on the friggin' computer. There just aren't enough hours in the day short of gallons of tea, coffee and burning the midnight oil. Going to an import/export conference next week in Virginia near DC to try and find out what's next with the illustrious gov't too. Should be interesting.
Yes. Peter, I agree. DT & I bought several of the ex-Indian rifles from Charnwood although we did sort out those that remained in Mk1 guise (& so retained the original markings IIRC). It's amazing what a strip down & careful refinish will do.......& I'm sure that in North America Brian is the person to do it.
ATB
I have an ex-Indian no. 4 Mk1/2 T and the thought has crossed my mind to have Brian refinish it but I can't quite bring myself to do it. The way I see it refinishing would lower the collector value and destroy the rifles history at the same time. I have no plans to sell it any time soon but as every Tom,Dick and Harry the world over knows the current U.S. economy sucks hard enough to create a vacuum on a shrimp net so I may have to part with it in the future to survive. The question is: how much of it's value would be removed with the old finish?
I need to tell everyone that since original Suncorite 259 is no longer available, I'll be picking and choosing what jobs I take from here on in because I only have a small supply left. I've refinished almost every British/Commonwealth weapon worth mentioning; from Browning pistols to Bren guns, all manner of Lee's and L1A1's to L7A2 GPMG's in the past 18 or so years. It's been a good run.
And Sten guns too Brian...........
Good point Vintage Hunter but to be honest and fair, you don't find tooooo many specialist ex Indian Army rifle collectors that go ape over poorly finished, rounded corner woodwork and metalwork painted with multiple coats of Valspar super-gloss yacht paint - although there might be one or two in the world. Indeed, gloss black paint and snipers aren't two words that you'd generally associate together
A good, well finished rifle will always out-sell for speed and value a poor badly finished rifle in my opinion. If sunkorite is as rare as the US dollar, I'd be beating a path to his door to get it done properly
Oops, lets not forget the Stens and Sterlings!
I actually have a really nice No.4Mk.1T out of Indian service. It was a gun show purchase from Deland, Florida many, many years ago. It obviously didn't see much use or a rebuild in Indian service but they still had to modify it by floating the muzzle and center bedding it like so many I've seen from India. To it's credit, I have to admit that it shoots well.
I've often wondered about that too, Peter. Why go to the trouble to rough sand the wood to reduce glare then coat the metal with some shiney paint you can most see your reflection in... appearently with a mop and without disassembling the rifle. Looks like the oil in the stocks prevented the paint from bonding however as most all of it came off when I gave it a good gleaning. All in all it's not as bad as some I've seen, they did'nt sand it enough to remove the ser. # and other markings from the stock.
Well, VH., I think you probably answered your own question.....if the paint is falling off then I suspect you could only improve the rifle by refinishing it......??
To be honset, I don't generally like refinishing kit, but sometimes a rifle or scope, scope tin (or whatever), whilst fundamentally sound, has been made such a mess of cosmetically, it can only be improved by a judicious refinish. When I do it I always do so to the original military specs., wherever possible. Just MHO.
ATB
But isn't glossy black paint slobbered all over the metal a correct Indian military finish? It's likely contemporary to the front pad rework, so...
Some luverly black painted 2a1s:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff035-2.jpg
The finish on the end face of the spigot looks like a rusty piece of plate that's been cleaned off. The lip sticking up on that face where the tap was run through is rather odd to say the least.
The screws have a hardware store made-in-China look about them (funny flat "areolas" in the centre of the heads)
The mating face looks rough as hell as well.
Find another I'd say.