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For everyone's enjoyment. What appears to me to be a new, repro, scope can with inaccurate markings ( WD marked and OS number engraved, not stamped, just to start) that has been in the seller's "collection for around 20 years"?
LEE ENFIELD No32 SCOPE TIN | eBay
Saved auction contents here for posterity and future research by members .. ;)
Quote:
Seller info
Member id lewis.303
Item number: 270790873222
Item location: SOUTHAMPTON, Hampshire, United Kingdom
Ships to: Worldwide
FOR AUCTION FROM MY COLLECTION IS THIS FANTASTIC LEE ENFIELD No32 SCOPE TIN THIS HOLDS THE SCOPE WITH ITS MOUNT ATTACHED TO IT WHICH THEN SCREWS ON TO THE 2 LUGS INSIDE THE TIN. THIS IS A VERY RARE AND HARD TO FIND ITEM I HAVE HAD THIS IN MY COLLECTION FOR AROUND 20 YEARS PLUS. ITS ALL MARKED & DATED AS CAN BE SEEN FROM THE PICTURES.
I HAVE NEVER SEEN ONE FOR SALE ON ITS OWN YET SO DON'T MISS OUT ON SUCH A FANTASTIC ITEM.
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS
Attachment 25453Attachment 25454Attachment 25455
Why do you think the markings are engraved? He did put chalk or some such in the lettering.
The can markings of the era were what we used to call 'roll stamped' I can't explain it accurately but a roller was pressed down and rolled across the surface. The reverse markings on the roller wheel embossed the marking onto the steel surface. The drawback was that it slightly stretched or distorted the material so the scope can always seemed to have a 'buckled' appearance. That's my experience.
You can see engraving because the rotating tool always leaves a spin mark at the bottom of the cut - unless it's a diamond tipped 'scratchy pen' type
If I had any doubt, I'd ask the vendor to guarantee, in writing, its originality. THat usually rocks their boat into the error of their ways if it is a duffer. Not that it affects me as I've never had the need to buy one!
Off thread slightly, it's a bit like asking the seller to guarantee, in writing, the future safety of a DP ONLY rifle
Detail shot from Badger's post #2:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._3020AMp-1.jpg
Very nice, but was BE making MkI cases in 1944?
And that WD stamp looks decidedly Victorian to my eye.
I wonder why the figure 1 in Mk1 is different to the figure 1 in 1944. On our Taylor Hobson Panto engravers, that Mk1 figure is a capital i while the 1 in 1944 is a figure 1.
Because the Mk. "One" is a Roman numeral "capital i" No dramas there!
I'd do photos, but my cases are ~60 km away.
Lemme see if there's other photos easily available...
The WD marking is the same mark they were putting on the repro scope mounts. Maybe the 20 year time in the collection is the same as kid that has to wait for something....a long 20 minutes becomes a year...
The can is what is it.....a repro can...........
From the MKL:
https://www.milsurps.com/content.php...)-Sniper-Rifle
Photo #119:
http://imageevent.com/badgerdog/brit...1&m=24&w=0&p=0
To see a close up directly here's a comparative photo for a 1941 case:
http://imageevent.com/badgerdog/brit...=0&w=1&s=0&z=9
It's a little different, but three years out, so...time to look some more.
Link to photos of reproduction scope tins:
See read6737's Post #22
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....ighlight=scope
See ickmann's Post #57
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....ighlight=scope
I did a 32 scope can/case comparison some time ago with about 8 different cans and cases...It might be on the old jester site, but I'll check and see if I still have the photo's.....
I saw one identical at Beltring about ten days ago. There were several repro scopes/mounts & tins, as well as a couple of real ones.
Out of curiosity Peter (& others), have you seen many BE made tins that were dated 1944? I never have, so far as I can recollect.
ATB
PS Sorry, hadn't noticed that Surpmil had already picked up on the BE & date thing......
I hadn't noticed that it was late year date DRP but it does look engraved. But As warren says, take it for what it is, a repop.
To be honest, if it gets another incomplete T on the road and shooting on the ranges, that's fine just so long as noone tries to pass it off
repo tin for sure,bought one just like it last month.Has exact same markings.
Thanks partner ... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by superbee
Who sells these things?
Regards,
Doug
Doug,
I think there's more than one source. The French dealer who trades on ebay & does Beltring as well as a lot of the French & Belgian shows sells a whole range of repro stuff, including scope tins. I think he trades as AAS or similar. I suspect the scope tins that are appearing often in association with the repro scopes & have the false engraved markings (as in this example) are possibly coming from the same place as the scopes themselves. Not certain about this, but from the few I've seen.....
Incidentally the square tins our French chap is doing now are really quite good. A pal of mine bought one from him last week. It was completely devoid of markings but was quite well made.
ATB
I still don't understand how the chalk filled letters in the "new production fake" can be described as "engraved":
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._3020AMp-1.jpg
"Fake" scope case markings
However, it surely isn't quite the same in details as original cases:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tuff0091-1.jpg
"Spare" case that mever had a rifle assigned, nor a mfg. date added.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tuff0061-1.jpg
Mfg date added separately from the other markings
Same case different lighting:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tuff0051-1.jpg
I don't know who made this case due to the several layers of paint, but it's dated 1955, with the second "5" being slighly different than the other "5" (which DOES match the rest of the faint numbers):
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...a99f7d02-1.jpg
The "newest" case in my stash- I've only had it since 2010-or is it 2009...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff002-1.jpg
But until these new tins came out I never paid them much attention! Either the rifle had a tin of one of two types or a "bag", or nothing!
Oh, even if you don't have labels and such inside your can, the roll stamping doesn't leave much, if any, reverse impression on the opposite face. Good tooling!
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff011-1.jpg
From the "spare" case. Which isn't spare. BTW.
The 50's era cases generally came from PSMW a small sheet metal fabricators from Swindon. The roll stamp just included the 195- and the last 4 or 5 or 6 as I remember, was added afterwards
Roll stamping doesn't leave a mark on the rear as the steel case is sandwiched between the mandril and the tool that rolls across it. But it does distort it.
I know that we know the case that started this thread is a fake but you can see that the 'Ltd' has been formatted from three separate letters set out on the engraving master plate whereas the original has the 'td' of the Ltd set into the space of the L. To think that it would have been simplicity itself to move the plate to get it right. Attention to detail lads............................
Well it sold for the £350 asking price in the end...
Some mothers do have them, I break into a sweat paying that much for a rifle, am quite sure you can get the tin for the 100 mark, straight from AAS, in fact may get a few and keep them in the collection for 20 years.....:lol: