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I have just returned from a friends house where I was offered a Lithgow L1A1 skeleton [corect term?]. The rifle and all accessories are mint and still sealed in plastic wrap and what I presume to be the original foam box. This rifle is exactly the same as the one on display at the Lithgow Small Arms Museum, see Milsurps - Lithgow SAF Museum Tour.
If anyone has any information to provide regarding value, rarity etc it would be appreciated.
Thanks
Is it a Bi-Centenary L1A1 with Blond wood?
I managed to find the thread you mentioned, I take it your referring to the rifle that's been attached to the mechanical display board. The Sectionalised Special Rifle (SR) looks to be one of the military ones (Although it has a New Zealand carrying handle on it). Recently (May 2007) at an Australian auction a Sectionalised Bi-Centenary L1A1 sold for AUD $5000 (there are only 34 of them) so I would say a normal Sectionalised L1A1 rifle in new condition with all its bits must be worth the same?
G'Day and thanks for the help nzl1a1collector.
I was not aware that there was a Sectionalised Bi-Centenary L1A1.
I have just done a quick search for "Sectionalised Bi-Centenary L1A1" showing pictures of one to be auctioned by NZ Antique & Historical Arms Assoc in July 2011 [Lot 1250].
I have noted that the serial no of the rifle to be auctioned was SR88400004.
Just a stab in the dark but could "SR" at the front of the serial mean "Sectionalised Rifle" and following that could "88" indicate the year of bicentenary 1988.
Please not this is only a theory and not based on any known fact, however it would not be an unusual way to start a serial no for a bicentennial/commemorative.
Do you think this could be a way of separating a normal Sectionalised Rifle and a Sectionalised Bi-Centenary.
As soon as I get a chance I will get the serial no to compare both.
Yes you were correct the wood is blond and yes the rifle I described at the LSA Museum was attached to the mechanical display board.
Thanks
'SR' is suppose to mean 'Special Rifle'.
'88' is the year of assembly 1988.
'00004' is the rifle number.
The rifle is marked on the right hand side:
AUSTRALIA'S BI-CENTENNIAL 1788-1988
S.A.F. LITHGOW LI.AI. PRODUCTION 1958-1988.
These rifles were produced in 1988 to commemorate Australia's Bi-Centenary and Lithgow's 30th year of L1A1 production. Only 34 rifles were assembled for sale to the general public.
The original Sectionalised Rifles made for military sales numbered from SR1 through to in excess of SR525.
If you can get the serial number of the rifle it will confirm which type of rifle it is. Military or Bi-Centenary, but if it has blond furniture then its more likely a Bi-Centenary rifle.
Here's a couple of pics of the above rifle
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...004_07sm-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...004_08sm-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...004_09sm-1.jpg
BINGO that's it, minus the plastic wrap.
Thanks again.
Any reason for the standard AD type serial numbers on the body and trigger mech housing plus the SR number?
Any reason why the AD serial numbers on the body and TMH differ? One starts AD63 and the other starts AD68
Well spotted Peter............ I was freeking out a little bit at the auction when I first examined the rifle and wondered the very same thing. I managed to get a photo of the rifle at the Lithgow Museum (SR8800028) and it too has a reused Body as you can make out AD 71 FTR XXXXX to the left of the ejection port. What a huge relief to me!Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I think Lithgow assembled these 34 Special Rifles on the cheap using any 'spare rifles' floating around the factory at the time.
OR, assembled from left over spare parts from stripped Unserviceable Rifles. This would explain the mismatch of the TMH & Reciever Serial Numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by nzl1a1collector
Makes sense to me, Why modify a complete matched ser,no Rifle if it's servicable & a shooter ready to be returned to a unit?
Much better to complete the project with bits & bobs if it's NEVER going to fire again.
DP's were moded similarly, but usually from worn & out of limit weapons. Perfectly adequete for the task in Dry Training.
Yes you are correct and for military DP rifles it would be ideal to do that. But you would think since these 34 rifles were a special commemorative product for a specific civilian market, they would of used NOS parts or removed the original numbers.
I guess it was a sign of the times, they were gearing up for Steyr AUG/F88 production
Out of interest, how were these 'rifles' regarded in Australia and the USA. Were they classed as totally inert and therefore not subject to any firearm rules or were they still regarded as firearms. When we were apprentices we'd often have these things to section as group projects. You had to have a real in-depth knowledge of the subject because you could be happilty drilling or milling something, only to discover that the viewing slot allowed a spring or part to drop out or jamb up!
As a little aside, regarding the Lithgow skeleton. If it was me (oh, hindsight is a wonderful thing of course...) I'd have SIDE sectioned the top of the cover instead of TOP sectioned as shown. That way, there would be a partially sectioned side and the other side would be totally complete
G'Day Peter
I have just spoken to NSW Firearms Registry [Australia] and to them this firearm is still considered a firearm. I have to submit a "permit to acquire form" the same as any other firearm, it also has to be locked in a safe or vault of the appropriate type.
Thanks
Its the same here the Sectionalised Rifles are basically still considered restricted firearms and have to be in a safe. Someone might repair it and make it a live firing rifle again. :confused::dunno::banghead:
I've been told that the American BATF regards sectionalized rifles such as this as functional firearms...and in the case of an FN-FAL type with the safety sear, as a machine gun.
Strangely, there was a sectionalized metric FAL at one of the bigger Midwestern shows for years...the guy probably still has it. He wanted $2000 for it last I saw.
My BSA built L1A1 from 1960 is made up of parts supplied from most of the UK RSAF factories and different dates. Unusually the butt is made by Slazenger. I think when my rifle retired from the British Army upon deactivation it was retro rebuilt to 1960 specification with wooden furniture. Cooling holes instead of slots.
Just for interest at the small Clock Tower museum on Enfield Island village. They have a sectioned and chromed MK1 Brengun, this is also a Lithgow. MA part numbers.