Pawn shop 03A4

Hi. I picked this up at a pawn shop recently, and am looking at deciding whether it's cost effective to try to restore it or not. Bubba got a hold of it first, sad to say, and he did a number on it. From what I can tell, he bedded the stock, sanded it and opened the trigger area for a Timney trigger that was installed in it (since replaced), changed the bolt body but appears to have left the original bolt guts intact, swapped out the butt plate for a Winchester shotgun recoil pad (since replaced with an SC butt plate until I can get a good Remington one), and swapped out the original scope and base for a "nice" BSA scope and split mounts.

On the positive side, it IS a fairly early serial number- 3410587- and is a real 03A4 receiver. The barrel date is odd; it has a 12-42 Remington barrel on it that has the original park over the sight area, and the "P" underneath but I haven't found the punch prick on the bottom yet. It seems kind of early, but then again who knows? All the bands are marked "R" and it hasn't been parked as a rebuild. It will never be an "all-original" rifle again, but I would like to figure out what I need to at least make it a correct one, either "as-issued" or perhaps as an early Vietnam issued rifle would be. One thing was interesting; the magazine body has the name "Charles E. Holmes" and the date "6-65" on it. I don't know if that is when Bubba "improved" it, or if this might have been someone who carried it in Vietnam and perhaps then brought it home, and later "fixed up his old gun from the war". The pawn shop owner said that an older gentleman brought it in, but I have no way of knowing for sure who the person was in 1965 whose name went on it.

Here's some pictures:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/002-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/003-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/004-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/005-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/006-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/007-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/008-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/010-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/001-1.jpg

Wow. Cool find! Once you make the updates, Bubba's work will go largely unseen, except for the most informed people. It appears he may have attacked the receiver under the bolt handle too. Who cares, I would have bought it too! Hopefully you will find some info on the name as well.

Congratulations on a good find.:thup:
The prick punch mark on the barrel is in the center of the ordnance bomb.
If you are looking for the one on the receiver, I believe it is on the right side
of the receiver ring under the serial number. It looks like it may be there.
Hard to tell from the pics.
Enjoy,
Chubby 308

Well, you definitely have a project on your hands! Would it be cost effective? Probably, in the long run. But you've got a LONG way to go!

Then theres the fact that the receiver has what looks like a hole that Bubba started to drill. It will be covered by the base, but to me it is now "tainted". I believe the area under the bolt is original to A4's.

The barrel date just doesn't match. Don't know of an A4 with a '42 date, but I could be wrong. No punch mark underneath, either. By the looks of the pitting, I'd say it's been refinished.

You've got an original receiver with an extra "hole" and a few "usable" parts for a full restoration. You need -

A4 barrel with correct date
Early type scope, probably a 330C with electropenciling
A4 C-stock
A4 bolt
Scope base and rings

Bought seperately, those few items will be about $3,000. My rough estimate.

Not trying to discourage you. For the right price, I would have bought the gun, too.

On my budget, I would add scope, base, rings, and call it done.

OK; so I picked up a Lyman Alaskan with what looks like the right rings for $325. I'm watching an 03A4 bolt auction on GB, and have a bid on a commercial base for it that is not original, but would get the scope attached to the rifle until I can find an original one for it. It may not be perfect at that point, but from a distance it would "do" as a decent-looking shooter and I'm still not in it TOO deep. I got the rifle initially for a Stainless Ruger 10/22 with two mags and a wood stock, and $175 cash from the pawn shop.

Sounds like you got a great deal! I agree with putting on a "period" scope. Keep us up to date on its progression.

Just make sure the Redfield base is old stock in the boxes and not the new Chinese bubble packed junk ones.
Chris

FWIW the punch mark that's of interest on A4 barrels is not the one in the center of the Ordnance bomb.
Also most of the rifles in this s/n range have MARCH 43 barrels.

Pvt Joker are there any remnants of any stock markings? left side behind trigger; in the cut off notch; forward of magazine or on the grip or wrist?

Regards,
Jim

fix the stock. bolt, weld the hole thats started, find a base, rings and scope...your in bus. all A4,s are notched under the bolt....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JGaynor

FWIW the punch mark that's of interest on A4 barrels is not the one in the center of the Ordnance bomb.
Also most of the rifles in this s/n range have MARCH 43 barrels.

Pvt Joker are there any remnants of any stock markings? left side behind trigger; in the cut off notch; forward of magazine or on the grip or wrist?

Regards,
Jim

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Here's what I could find left on it. It almost looks like someone, at some time, had tried to checker it and then sanded that off. But the marks that are left are these:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../08/0011-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../08/0021-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../08/0031-1.jpg

And here's one of the bolt cutout:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../08/0041-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chuckindenver

fix the stock. bolt, weld the hole thats started, find a base, rings and scope...your in bus. all A4,s are notched under the bolt....

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I got a Lyman Alaskan scope and rings coming from eBay, a Redfield base (in the red box) coming off Gunbroker, and am watching a bolt auction there too. The stock; well, you can see the pictures I posted. I don't think there's any "fixing" the original one at this point, but do I keep the modified original or do I get one of the repro C stocks (either the CMP or the SARCO ones) ?

Those marks on the stock look like what an un-padded vise would leave.

Thanks for the extra details and pics.

Regards,
Jim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

Those marks on the stock look like what an un-padded vise would leave.

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You know, I think you might be right! Hadn't even occurred to me. Wonder if they'll steam out? Eh; the stock may need to be replaced anyway, if I ever want to shoot it in competition, since it was bedded. I'll take it back apart and get a few more photos...

---------- Post added at 06:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:21 PM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JGaynor

Thanks for the extra details and pics.

Regards,
Jim

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You're welcome, Jim. Does it look like the original A4 stock to you? (Or what's left of it, anyway) If so, would it be better to keep it and try to steam out the indentions, or to replace it with an aftermarket one?

OK; here's some more photos of the inside of the stock and the bedding job:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../08/0051-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../08/0061-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../08/0071-1.jpg

And one where you can see where he opened up the trigger area for the Timney trigger that was on it when I got it...

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../08/0081-1.jpg

Also, here's some more of the barrel and receiver markings:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/017-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../08/0091-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/012-2.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/013-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/014-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/015-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/016-1.jpg

[QUOTE
You're welcome, Jim. Does it look like the original A4 stock to you? (Or what's left of it, anyway) If so, would it be better to keep it and try to steam out the indentions, or to replace it with an aftermarket one?[/QUOTE]

Pvt, Joker, it looks like a scant stock. So while it MIGHT have been an A4 stock your March rifle is too early for an original scant. They started appearing on rifles in the fall of 43. So at best it was a replacement. On top of that all the work that's been done to it will be difficult and time consuming to undo.

If it was me i would check to see if Sarco still has the reproduction "C" stocks they had this time last year. I handled a couple in their store and they looked very nice. Reports on the net seemed favorable as well. They might have had some with the bolt handle notch. Its worth checking.

Regards,
Jim

OK, SARCO is out of them and said they don't plan on getting any more of the C stocks. Guess I can try Numrich? Any ideas where I might find one of the correct WWII Redfield scope bases?

A GI scope base will be another tough one. The best bet IMO is a WTB ad in this forum, CULVERS and Gunboards forum. A few years back there were some loose spare floating arournd. They Redfield Jr. bases that had been packed or supplied by Lyman during the Korean War. Parkerized but not marked "REDFIELD". Some one may be hanging onto one and just may decide its time to turn it into cash.
Two things are working against you i am afraid.
1. Several years back the govy released a number of A4's w/o bases (the so called Grade B's). A number of these have been restored by now.
2. The vintage sniper matches have also increased the demand.

But good luck.
Too bad about the Sarco stocks. The ones I looked at were pretty nice.

Regards,
Jim

If it's any use (maybe not) I came across an ebay auction with an A4 stock for sale. It didn't get to his reserve with a $271 bid so he probably still has it, but have no idea how much he wants for it.

M1903A4 REMINGTON KEYSTONE SNIPER C STOCK 1903A4 A4 | eBay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Harlan

If it's any use (maybe not) I came across an ebay auction with an A4 stock for sale. It didn't get to his reserve with a $271 bid so he probably still has it, but have no idea how much he wants for it.

M1903A4 REMINGTON KEYSTONE SNIPER C STOCK 1903A4 A4 | eBay

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Nice looking piece of wood but the markings are a bit dubious. The "RA" as used on the stock stands for "Remington Arms". The faint "SPG" cartouche may be obscuring an appropriate "FJA" mark - hard to say w/o a better pics. Also I believe Mr.. Gibbs did his inspections at Springfield prior to WW2. Does anyone know if he was called back for re-inspection work during or after the war?

Probably be a good idea to insist on a no questions asked 3-day inspection period. Given the prices on his other items i suspect he was looking for close to a grand on the stock.

Regards,
Jim

I checked with the seller, but the stock had already been sold. I may just have to get one of the Numrich C stocks and add the bolt relief to it.

OK; my Lyman Alaskan and the late model 03A3/A4 Redfield scope base came in today. I still need to get some 8-40 Fillister screws for attaching it but here's how it sits on the rifle. Beats the hades out of that BSA that came with it. :lol:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../08/0012-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../08/0022-1.jpg

It still needs a correct base, a good repro C-stock, correct bolt and butt plate... but it's getting there.

I know it's not a collector as found but the owner went to some trouble to "accurize" this rifle. Just curious if you shot it before you took it apart? I'd bet that rifle shoots like a champ even though it it's not a looker. I'd bet the guy bought it cheap and made a deer rifle out of it.

You know, pcaru1, it really was pretty accurate with the barrel bedding. If it weren't for not being CMP match legal, I'd probably just leave that part of it. That might also have something to do with the barrel being different (if it's not original; the date is close but not typical) because it all adds up, along with the Timney trigger he had on it when I got it. But if I do get another stock, I might just have to hang onto this one until I see if it totally ruins the accuracy or not.

I guess part of the question becomes "Am I trying to restore it to as-issued, as rebuilt, or just wanting to make it "look" closer to correct?" I do realize that no matter what I do to it at this point, it will never be "original" again- at best, perhaps "restored". And therefore, the money value of it will not bring what an original, unmolested one goes for. But as a really nice shooter that is set up along the lines of what it would have been in Korea/early Vietnam, it would be a great piece to have to me as it would go with my others that I have put/am putting together from around the Vietnam era.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/08/012-1.jpg

An M1D Garand and a Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 Target version in .30-06 with a Unertl scope, and I'd have a pretty good representative group.

So I guess it becomes a matter of trying to determine what best fits my needs for how to go about it. I would like to be able to shoot it in the CMP vintage sniper matches one of these days, though, so the bedded stock will probably have to go. But just from an accuracy standpoint, I bet I could work up a handload that would make this old warhorse shine...

That's what I thought to. vice marks