Vintage Item found in my No.4 Mk1

So I am very new to the Lee Enfield owner's community. I don't know how often this happens to people so please don't flame me for starting this thread.

I was examining my newly acquired Enfield for markings when I came across something odd. I noticed some type of paper with writing on it through the split between the top pieces and bottom pieces of my forearm stock. I removed the top part of the stock to find something really cool and interesting, at least it is in my opinion. There are pieces of cut-up vintage cereal boxes under the stock and around the barrel. So far, I have found pieces from Post Toasties, Raisin Bran and an old Diamond matches box maybe? There are more under the barrel,but I havent gotten to them yet. Anyways, after some digging online, I dated the Post Toasties box pieces to 1958. I am just assuming that the rest are from that time as well. My questions about this are:

1) How many of you enfield owners have ran into something like this?
2) I am assuming these were used as shims to make the stock fit more tightly?
3) Should I leave them there and do you think something like this increases the value of the gun at all?
4) I know these are silly questions to some of you, but I think that it is pretty amazing that this rifle may not have had the stock removed since 1958!?

Here are my answers:

1) Not yet, but never say never with Lee-Enfields
2) Yep, most likely shims
3) If the rifles shoots well, them leave them alone. They do not add any value to the rifle.
4) I think there may be one or two people who frequent this forum who have Lee-Enfields that have not had the forends off in a century...

Do you have photos of the said beastie?

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Originally Posted by spinecracker

Here are my answers:

1) Not yet, but never say never with Lee-Enfields
2) Yep, most likely shims
3) If the rifles shoots well, them leave them alone. They do not add any value to the rifle.
4) I think there may be one or two people who frequent this forum who have Lee-Enfields that have not had the forends off in a century...

Do you have photos of the said beastie?

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I only have photos of some of the markings. I found more stamps when i took off the stock too. I will take some photos and post later. Nothing fancy by any means.

This type of shimming is very common. Lots of rifles turn up with cardboard and folded cigarette box packaging in the barrel channel.

Only such thing I'm familiar with is that with behind the buttplates of K31's you might find the name and address of the original owner (at least that happened with all of my 4 K31's to me).

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There is plenty of information on this forum regarding the bedding of Lee-Enfield forends, including giving the wood on your new rifle a good drink of raw linseed oil (I use a 1:1 mix of raw linseed oil and turpentine). Do you have photos of the left side of the receiver and the left side of the buttsocket? That should help identify the factory and year of manufacture.

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Originally Posted by spinecracker

There is plenty of information on this forum regarding the bedding of Lee-Enfield forends, including giving the wood on your new rifle a good drink of raw linseed oil (I use a 1:1 mix of raw linseed oil and turpentine). Do you have photos of the left side of the receiver and the left side of the buttsocket? That should help identify the factory and year of manufacture.

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Oh, those are only pictures of the most recent markings that I have found. In my previous post (post #6), the fourth picture from the left on the third row down is the stamping on the left side of the receiver. I haven't tried to look it up yet. I have quite a few more pics with markings below. I think this is a 1943.

I see an M 47 on the wrist, thats the wartime code to stop the nazis figuring out that BSA made your rifle.
Can you tell us the other numbers and letters on the wrist? they don't show very well in the pictures, and it looks like you have a very very low serial number, thats quite interesting.
the L on top of the butt is Long for long arms/tall people, who need a longer butt length to shoot better. They also come in a short and medium length.

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Originally Posted by RJW NZ

I see an M 47 on the wrist, thats the wartime code to stop the nazis figuring out that BSA made your rifle.
Can you tell us the other numbers and letters on the wrist? they don't show very well in the pictures, and it looks like you have a very very low serial number, thats quite interesting.
the L on top of the butt is Long for long arms/tall people, who need a longer butt length to shoot better. They also come in a short and medium length.

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That number below m 47 is 1943 which is the date of manufacture i believe? It appears to have been douple stamped. The number below that is barely legible. It is the serial number which happens to match the bolt. It is APxxxx. Unless i am wrong, that is a Maltby serial?

Actually according to Ian Skennerton AP**** is a BSA number prefix as well.


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Originally Posted by gsimmons

Actually according to Ian Skennerton AP**** is a BSA number prefix as well.


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Yep. Actually just found that on another website.

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Originally Posted by gsimmons

Actually according to Ian Skennerton AP**** is a BSA number prefix as well.


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After learning that, I actually have recognizable BSA markings on the gun as well. This S***T can be confusing.

Yes it is, but we're lucky to have some of the best people on this forum.


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Originally Posted by gsimmons

Yes it is, but we're lucky to have some of the best people on this forum.


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I know. I wasnt complaining. Thanks to this forum, I have been able to make a lot of sense out of all of these markings. I have only been more confused by many other sites. Still learning though. There are some stamps on my barrel that I simply cant find anywhere.

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Originally Posted by spacemonkey333

There are some stamps on my barrel that I simply cant find anywhere.

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Here's a link that will help with official markings. :thup:

It's a site provided by Amatikulu with some good information to bookmark for the future.

Lee Enfield Rifle Markings (click here)

Regards,
Doug

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Originally Posted by Badger

Here's a link that will help with official markings. :thup:

It's a site provided by Amatikulu with some good information to bookmark for the future.

Lee Enfield Rifle Markings (click here)

Regards,
Doug

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Thanks! I have been there a couple of times and identified most of my markings from there. There are just some that I can not find anywhere though. They almost look like foreign marks or something.

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Originally Posted by spacemonkey333

Thanks! I have been there a couple of times and identified most of my markings from there. There are just some that I can not find anywhere though. They almost look like foreign marks or something.

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Post pics and we'll see what we can do for you .. ;)

Regards,
Doug

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Originally Posted by Badger

Post pics and we'll see what we can do for you .. ;)

Regards,
Doug

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I really appreciate how helpful everyone is here! I actually posted the markings on the first page in this thread. They are on post #6. There are two photos on the third row, 2nd and 3rd photos from the left. Maybe I need to get online and buy a couple of books, huh?

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Originally Posted by spacemonkey333

I really appreciate how helpful everyone is here! I actually posted the markings on the first page in this thread. They are on post #6. There are two photos on the third row, 2nd and 3rd photos from the left. Maybe I need to get online and buy a couple of books, huh?

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Depending upon how a viewer sizes his browser, they will see various row lengths of pics, so I don't see a row 3 of pics (only 2) and therefore I don't know what pics you're referring to. I suspect you might be referencing various inspector stamps that would get applied and different stages of the manufacturing process.

Regardless, since you own a No.4 now, perhaps go to our MKL and download a complete set of manuals for the Lee Enfield from the MKL, which includes operating and armourer's maintenance instructions.

The manuals may be found in the Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders (click here)


2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Manuals (click here)

Complete Set includes:

- 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Data Summary
- 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Parts Identification List
- 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Operating Instructions
- 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Equipment Description
- 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Maintenance Instructions


1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Manuals (click here)

Complete Set includes:

- 1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Operating Instructions
- 1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Maintenance Instructions

Note: The difference between the 1991 set of No.4 Manuals and 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Manuals, is that the 1991 manual contains armourer's information on how to properly "bed" the No.4 rifle, whereas the newer 2002 manual does not.

Hope this helps... :)

Regards,
Doug

Ian Skennerton's "Lee Enfield Story" is a must for the Enfield owner.


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Originally Posted by Promo

Only such thing I'm familiar with is that with behind the buttplates of K31's you might find the name and address of the original owner (at least that happened with all of my 4 K31's to me).

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But that is a very much a Swiss thing. It's done so that the carbine can be returned to its owner, if he leaves it on a train, for instance, during "changeover".

They used to do a similar thing with soldiers washing (they may still do for all I know). He would leave it at his local station addressed to his mother. She would wash it and then leave it at her local station with his address.

I have found pieces of palm frond and other duff in the fore stock of a No.5 Mk.I that I purchased a relly long time ago. Rifle looks a bit field worn on the outside, too, but it's not in horrible shape.

Also, strips of thick paper or thin cardboard under barrel bands, but nothing particularly identifiable.

I found a piece of rolled up card, torn from an old ammo box stuffed into the butt trap of a No1 rifle. It had written on it 'Pte I Graham, Bord R' which I learned was Private I. Graham. Border Regiment That was in the butt of an EY rifle as I recall that had to be removed in order to re-wire the fore-end that we used to do in a slow running lathe

The big "E" on the side of the receiver body is a little odd. But the most interesting mark to me is the "O" on the top of the LH side of the forestock just behind the receiver ring (where the barrel screws into the action.) Can't tell you what it means, but the positioning reminds me of something else (not related to your specific rifle.) Thanks for the photos!

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Originally Posted by jmoore

The big "E" on the side of the receiver body is a little odd. But the most interesting mark to me is the "O" on the top of the LH side of the forestock just behind the receiver ring (where the barrel screws into the action.) Can't tell you what it means, but the positioning reminds me of something else (not related to your specific rifle.) Thanks for the photos!

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I believe that the "E" stamp stands for Enfield rifling...can anyone confirm that? I can't remember the sight that I found that on. As far as the "O" on the stock, I have yet to find the meaning...