What's This Thing? G88? Please Tell Me Everything You Know... Thanks!

Hello,

I got it in my head today that I wanted a Mauser. I went to a few gunstores and they all wanted around $400 to $600 for one. Nope. All had bent bolt handles, too, and I wanted a straight one, being a lefty and all.

So I saw this thing in my favorite gunstore. Said "Amberg 88" or some danged thing on it. It had been sitting there for the better part of the year.

The gunstore owner said he wanted to see it gone, and he'd make me a deal. It had rust in the bore but looked OK overall.

I called up a friend who knows some about these things, told me some of what to check for. I told the gunstore owner that I'd have to come back for it after doing some research as I didn't know if it would be a wall hanger or a shooter, though I do like a project.

He told me that I know how he dislikes old milsurps. I know... too much research to find their value. He also knows how I like a project and to make an offer. I told him I didn't feel right doing so because I'd likely insult him.

He said he was thinking 50 bucks.

Not to pass up a deal, I came back with "How about 25?"

"40."

"30."

"35."

"Sold!" says I. $37.50 out the door.

I got it home and pulled it apart. One dent, very little surface rust -- just one spot on what appeared to be a hood on the barrel. The barrel was pristine under that hood. I had been afraid maybe it was rusted through.

Happily, it was not.

I was pushing what looked like mud out of the barrel, and after liberal amounts of Fluid Film and bore brushes wrapped in steel wool, it started to shine.

Not the best bore I've ever seen, but far from the worst. I've seen worse bores on Mosin-Nagants shoot well.

Here are some pics:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00129-1.jpg

G88 pictures by WabashShootist - Photobucket

Now, only a couple questions are of very great importance to me: What the bloody hell is a G88, and what ammo do I shoot from it? 7.92 Mauser? I wanna make noise! :D

Thanks,

Josh

You have a Commission 88/05! They are fairly common, and it does shoot 8MM BUT I would only shoot new commercial ammo for it. The "05" comes from a modification made to Commission 1888 rifles to upgrade them to take stripper clips instead of en-bloc and to the new 8mm S bore. The original could not take the common 8MM mauser as we know and love it. Most all American 8mm loaded by winchester or remington or whatever is loaded down pressure to keep some one from shooting an original and blowing themselves up and suing. That is good for us because it is fairly common and safe to shoot but avoid any milsurp 8mm in an 88/05. Many of them have ended up in Turkey before coming here so look at your rear sight- it is in Farsi! There is a good bit more to discuss on these but it depends on what you want to know about it really. They are neat little rifles but if you want a Mauser then you might want to look else where- they are a Mannlicher design if I am not mistaken. Also, not the most beginner friendly either. HOWEVER for the price, it is a steal! I have seen them anywhere from $200 to maybe $300 depending on condition and such. I would have definitely paid that much for it and I already have one! I am sure someone will post on here with some loading information so follow that and you'll be safe. I shot mine with a very light handload that I use to test 8mm rifles.

Anyway, a cool piece and a superb price! I hope you enjoy.

Do you see any half-moon stamps on it? The Germans shipped thousands to Turkey in WWI. Nice find. You can safely shoot Remington/Winchester 8mm ammo all day long. Do stay away from European 8mm, just too hot for the rifle. Nice find, for sure.

Thank you.

I just slugged it four times to be sure -- it seems that the lead comes out to 0.310" x 0.316", but it's tighter at the muzzle.

To be sure, I took a 0.310" bullet (I reload for the Mosin-Nagant) and it just barely rode the lands most of the way down, then dropped.

If I'm reading things right, the throat was opened up, but maybe not the barrel, and the 0.32x" bullet swages down safely.

Or, I could be wrong.

Do I need to find 0.318" bullets?

Thank you,

Josh

0.318" bullets would be best. No sense pushing the old rifle to it's limits.

I like and own a few of these rifles but i don't know why, exactly. They handle well, but you will discover that the bolt handle is rather too far forward for easiest operation, especially running it from the left side. Mausers from 1889 onwards have the handle at the rear of the bolt, so they're easier for us to cycle.

As noted above, this rifle is not a Mauser. But it probably annoyed Mauser onto better designs right quick!

Amberg was the state arsenal in Bavaria. The 88 rifle (`88´ because it was introduced in 1888) was designed by a Prussian `commission´ and was, at first, unreliable and very unpopular. Later replaced by the Mauser in WWI (some 88´s were used by rear echelons).

Why unreliable? I seem to remember reading about some contemporary controversy, but the details escape me...Ummm. firing the weapon without the bolthead installed, loose barrel jackets, burst barrels and poorly regulated sights are what pop into mind, but ...that all could be completely wrong!

From a theoretical standpoint, the worst features are the removable bolthead in conjunction with front locking lugs on a "standard" diameter bolt body, and the hugely heavy striker.

I've seen quite a bit of WWI film footage and still photos showing German frontline troops in the early years of the war armed with the Gew.88. Evidently they were issued to more than just the rear echelon.

Josh,
I really love the old 88. I have several and am always looking for more of them. From what I've gathered the Turkish reworks are safer to shoot with the std bullet. The one I have to shoot is one of those. It is good to have slugged the bore as there are still many of them out there in the 318 configuration. The date of manufacture is on the top of the receiver ring. A very good reference book is Paul Scarlata's collectors series " German Gew. 88 "Commission" Rifle. There is also a separate group on the web devoted to collecting/studying these fine rifles. It is the G88 collectors forum. Not that you can't get good intel on them from the guys here but if you are infected with the 88 virus then as an additional place to get your fix the other site is available. Looks like a very nice rifle and the price is very nice. Good luck with it.
Tim Ryan

Definitely saw service in Turkey last. About the same as my first '88, which i bought for US$50 back in the late 1970's. Sold it a few years ago (I'm not sure why) for $300 or 375. The metal cover that was added to the bottom of the magazine housing is a little different than the ones i've seen previously as it looks to be riveted in place.

At least you don't have to fork over wads of cash for clips, which are required for the "unmodernized" rifles:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff049-1.jpg

BTW: I'm NOT telling you everything I know. But it ain't much anyway...

An old piece of German Army wisdom has it that the Gew. 88 killed more German soldiers than the French during the Franco Prussian War. One reason was the poor quality of the first German smokeless powder. Whereas the French could make their nitro powder from Algerian cotton, the Germans had to use wood, rotted in ditches filled with acid. It was also maintained that the Loewe factory that made the first Gew. 88 delivered unreliable quality.

Say what?? Read and learn: The Franco-Prussian War or Franco-German War, often referred to in France as the 1870 War[7] (19 July 1870 – 10 May 1871) was a conflict between the Second French Empire and the Kingdom of Prussia.
Gew88's were built 1888 to 1894/5. 17 years AFTER the Franco-Prussian war. Actually, the Gew88 served for years in the German and Turkish Armies and served well.

I have a all matching except bolt and rear site(TURKED)1891 Amberg Gew 88/05 and what I found on mine was an extra # along with my serial # I found this # on my barrel and barrel shroud ,it was in the barrel channel of the stock and it was also on some of the smaller parts in the magazine area. I asked about this # to another collector and he has since found that this # is actually the 05 mod #. My # is 42. It was the 42nd 05 mod done by Amberg. Other members of another Gew88 site have verfied there AMBERG 05 mod # .If possible could you see if you have this extra # on your AMBERG?
Take care
Semper Fi
Phil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Calif-Steve

Say what?? Read and learn: The Franco-Prussian War or Franco-German War, often referred to in France as the 1870 War[7] (19 July 1870 – 10 May 1871) was a conflict between the Second French Empire and the Kingdom of Prussia.
Gew88's were built 1888 to 1894/5. 17 years AFTER the Franco-Prussian war. Actually, the Gew88 served for years in the German and Turkish Armies and served well.

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Correct! The Franco-Prussian War was over, so those serving later who were then issued with the `88 could make the comparison (for what it´s worth). A Prussian Acceptance Commission was situated within the Loewe factory and it was found that `88 rifles had been crated and sent out with manipulated acceptance papers. This was to lead to a press campaign by a rabid nationalist against the Jewish Loewe company. Admirably, Kaiser Bill put a stop to the campaign against Loewe. It took some years for the bugs to be ironed out, but finally the much better Mauser 89 was accepted.

Patrick - a typo I think - you presumably mean the Gew.98 (not 89!).

To All:
It would be best to avoid citing elements of the anti-semitic agitation attached to the Gew88. They are not pertinent to the aims of this forum. The matter has been comprehensively dealt with by historians, and if it is pursued here we are going to go way off topic in a matter that is both political and distasteful.

Forgetting the political dirt thrown at the Gew.88 and getting back on the topic of what the rifle is/was and what it can do, I recommend

A Collector's Guide to the German Gew.88 "Commission" Rifle
by Paul Scarlata,
Mowbray, ISBN 1-931464-30-8

Patrick
:wave:

Thanks gents.

I decided to go with a powder I know.

Thus far I've fired two rounds. Both were 0.318" 200grn JSP over 40.5grns of Varget. That's a starting load for the 7,9x57js, but right in the middle of the pressure curve for the j. Also got a pamphlet with about all the loads out there for the j and js.

Now,the first round was fired remotely from behind ballistic glass as suggested by JayPee. I opened the breech, inspected the cartridge, bolt, etc for damage. Everything looked perfect, so I fired the next one manually into a dead tree about 25 or 30 yards distant.

It went right where i wanted, but a couple inches high.

I'm pretty sure the guy who had this before me had been running surplus (eek) through it as evidenced by the bore's condition. If that's the case, this old warhorse is getting a break.

Range report to follow after I test the cycling!

Regards,

Josh

I would go with 8mm Remington or Winchester commerical ammo. Loaded to G88 velocity and very safe. Do avoid the European 8mm. They load it for the Mod 98 rifles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

Patrick - a typo I think - you presumably mean the Gew.98 (not 89!).

To All:
It would be best to avoid citing elements of the anti-semitic agitation attached to the Gew88. They are not pertinent to the aims of this forum. The matter has been comprehensively dealt with by historians, and if it is pursued here we are going to go way off topic in a matter that is both political and distasteful.

Forgetting the political dirt thrown at the Gew.88 and getting back on the topic of what the rifle is/was and what it can do, I recommend

A Collector's Guide to the German Gew.88 "Commission" Rifle
by Paul Scarlata,
Mowbray, ISBN 1-931464-30-8

Patrick
:wave:

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Correct: typo 89 for 98. My admiration for the Loewes precludes any form of anti-semitism. One of them was responsible for the development and manufacture of the Luger pistol. The other, together with Rathenau for the development of field telegraphy (he invented the electronic circuit board). The company Loewe Opta is still the leading TV manufacturer in Germany. Under the Kaiser, Loewe was a progressive member of parliament who built the first exemplary housing projects for his employees in Berlin.