Sterling Police carbine

Hello everybody ! I am new to this forum and i don t know if this is the right place to post this thread . I bought two Sterlings lately which are both stamped RNG .One is a Policecarbine MK4 and the other one is a Sterling Mk 3 .The Mk 3 is a comercialy one .Does it is possible that both have seen service in Rhodesia as they came from Zimbabwe ? As I read in Peters Book the Guns of Daganham , there have been delivered only 3 Policecarbine to Rhodesia .
Maybe somebody has got more informations?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2d5fc7_o-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...176c47_o-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...b89ddc_o-1.jpg

and the MK 3 :

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...375e83_o-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fdcce6_o-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e96c35_o-1.jpg

While only three Police Carbines went there officially, its probable/possible that many more made their way there after UDI. We know, after learning on this forum, that while the RGN is listed in some intelligence bulletins as NEPAL, we now know that it is a Rhodesia marking - as you say. On that basis, I would imagine that both your guns came from the new, now basket case Zimbabwe

Many of the Police Carbines were simply converted standard Mk3 or 4 SMG's. Can you take a careful look under the heavy POLICE CARBINE engraving to see whether the previous SMG mark is visible?

The serial numbers of all Sterling guns was deliberately engraved very deep so that grinding out or otherwise hiding an old number would be very difficult

Hello Peter , thank you for the answre . I had a closer look and compared it to my MK 4 Sterling .It s a New Zealand one but i guess it is the same as the British one . The policecarbine has a thin stamped "NO" and a deep serial number . The Mk 4 has deep " NO " . So it could be possible that after some grinding the NO was weakened . Otherwise there is nothing visible to say there was something else before . As far as I know that the "RNG " stamping was manly used during the federation time or just after , which ended 1963 .It is maybe possible that it was stamped when it was delivered .Do you know for what purposes the 3 Police carbines were delivered that time? During the bush war it was only a few sterlings used at all , so i think it might have been in police use .
What i also like to know is, if all Mk 3 Sterlings which were sold out of uk were Sterling marked and the British army ones not? And how many Police carbines were made at all? In your book you say it was 507 with further batches followed but i thought they didn't produce the Mk 4 PC anymore and switched over to the Mk 6?
regards Andreas

---------- Post added at 05:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 AM ----------

I forgot to say that the PC was not converted to fully automatic . All the parts were in original condition . But the trigger itself looks like a Mk 3 one .

---------- Post added at 05:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:48 AM ----------

I forgot to say that the PC was not converted to fully automatic . All the parts were in original condition . But the trigger itself looks like a Mk 3 one .

The first few Police carbines were made from existing Mk3 body casings. The first Mk4 Police carbines used up the remaining (but interchangeable) Mk3 trigger mechanism's. Those that were fitted with the remaining Mk3 trigger mechanism's were sent to warm climates where they wouldn't need the arctic trigger fitting that wasn't possible with the Mk3 trigger mechansm - hence Kenya and Malaya where the farmers and rubber plantation managers had them.

I have to say, and I could be wrong of course, but the marking in photo 6 certainly LOOKS like it reads ?NG and not NZ

Sterling went over from Mk4 Police carbines to the Mk6 because the Mk4 Police carbine was simple to convert back to rock and roll and this was not acceptable to many governments. Like most of you, I consider to be rather unsporting really

The answers to the other questions regarding markings are in the book

Thank you for the Information . Yes the picture 6 is the Mk 3 Sterling also stamped RNG but the R is nearly disappeared . The Mk 4 i compared with is this one NZ stamped:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e7b797_o-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...97f9f9_o-1.jpg

Not sure if it helps or confuses things but two of my Mk4 Police Carbines also have the RNG markings with three numerals. Looks like either:

a) Between us we have all three, Rhodesian Mk4 Police Carbines
b) More than 3 were in service or
c) RNG stands for something else

Not sure which is the case.

That's very interisting Lima! I think yes , it could be possible that we have all the three , but it also is possible what Peter said that after the 3 more police carbines came into the land .Do you have the same kind of Stamp? Anyway a police carbine itself is a very rare weapon, as there are only 507 made . If we find somebody else who has got one and it is also stamped RNG , we will know for sure .

Andreas, my two with RNG have the same kind stamp/engraving as yours. I will be collecting two more low serial number Police Carbines from a friend next month, will be interesting to see if they also have RNG.

A rare weapon indeed. There were 507 made up to 1975 according to the GoD book. It looks like about another 450+ were made since 1975 if serial numbering was sequential. The highest serial number I know of is P966 (interestingly not P0966) which lives somewhere in Canada. Don't know if you know this but In Canada the Mk.4 Police Carbine is the only Sterling type or variant that was not prohibited by the Liberal government when many types of guns were banned or siezed in the 90's. For civilians, it is currently only 'restricted' like a pistol due to the short barrel. There are only about 50+ registered in Canada and they command an unusually high price.

One quite close to yours

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3_7kg_05-1.jpg

and another.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...030366_2-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...030366_3-1.jpg

So now we know for sure there are more than 3 Policecarbine with RNG . Do you know something about it's history?

Just to follow up, there are at least 7 Mark 4 Police Carbines I have now seen that have the "RNG" markings and the following numbers.

350
365
373
392
416
435
593

If anyone wants to sell one of their Police Carbines, puleeezz contact me.
Thanx.

koldt@telus.net

Couldn't figure out how to edit the above post, but wanted to add, I can import if needed:)

If it's not originality you're after then it'd be a simple matter to convert a bog standard Mk3 or 4 into Police Carbine spec and re-engrave or over engrave it. That's just what Sterling did when the need arose.

The PC trigger conversion from R&R to single shot only is fully explained in that book by wots'is name.

I know someone in the US who can reproduce the crackle finish.

I had a Police Carbine, but traded it for my Canadian C1 SMG. I've got some more money now, and therefore, looking to obtain a live Sterling Police Carbine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AndreasS

So now we know for sure there are more than 3 Policecarbine with RNG . Do you know something about it's history?

---

Sorry guys I know im necro posting but you may find it intresting to know. I also have a police carbine that came from Rhodesia serial number P0175, RNG markings as well.


http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...psbxb0s7ti.jpg

http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3u40yatb.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zps3u40-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpsriow-1.jpg

We and the Malay Army used to stay in the rubber plantations (and the tin mines in the North) for days at a time to 'show the flag'. Arriving in the late hours and disappear many days later on an irregular basis so that it could be seen that we were keeping up our presence felt and disrupt anything that might be happening. Conditions were dire but you got to know the planters. They had Sterling Police Carbines (supplied by Firestone and others by Dunlop Rubber Co I seem to recall.....). We Australian Inf) only had L1A1's, shotguns and AR15's/M16's or Brens but when I got the chance to go to the big RAEME/REME workshop, I 'liberated' and gave the plantation manager a load of spare magazines, decent Mk2z ammo and a couple of rock and roll trigger mechanism's plus a bag full of decent slings. If we were hoochied up there over a weekend the wife would bring us up to the house, a few at a time, for a proper Sunday lunch instead of the compo crap we'd been living on. I was one of the only poms and the English wife of one of the estate managers near Gemas went back to England (for a holiday or to see her kids who were all at school in England or Oz anyway) and went over to see my mum and told her she'd seen me and took her a couple of photos.

Their Sterlings and big Savage shotguns weren't in very good condition as they were constantly in use, carried everywhere or in the back of their Land Rovers so most of the paint had gone and the mud, slime and rain ain't kind to steel

Oh yes, Sterling Police carbines. Have I veered off course enough yet............