1959 British enfield no. 1 mk iii drill rifle-display

Guys,

I recently acquired this critter. It was advertised as a "parts rifle" or for display. Mind you, every surface is stamped "DP". So it would take a bit of work to remove these marks, and to fully use them in other rifles... :madsmile:

BRITISH ENFIELD NO. 1 MK III DRILL RIFLE-DISPLAY

So here are some photos of it:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ufacture-1.jpg

Magazine painted with stripes...

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...genfield-1.jpg



DP marked bolt.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bolthead-1.jpg

Drilled hole in receiver through barrel.... Otherwise the rifle is intact. The barrel isn't welded in... no extra "clip" off the receiver.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...illholes-1.jpg


DP marked nose cap.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ldEndCap-1.jpg


Handguard repair! Small chunk falling out of it.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...renfield-1.jpg


Rear sight is nice and clean, but has the DP mark.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Penfield-1.jpg


Here is the receiver side. I can't quite make out who imported (?) this none rifle. I think it says:SPR SP(?) PN RN PA. There are additional markings about 2inches ahead of this... but I can't get a good photo.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...senfield-1.jpg



The stock is stamped with various marks... and the DP stamp!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dpstamps-1.jpg

Here we have the brass buttplate. Sadly I checked to see if there were any hidden goodies... and its a no-go! :crying:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...eenfield-1.jpg


Thought or comments???:D

Excellent wall hanger, well described...

I think it's perfect. If you have a collection of Lee Enfields and you don't have this one, then you're missing one.

Guys,
LOL! This is my second Enfield... so not quite a collection yet!
I am actually interested in the history of this (non) rifle. I have been following some of the threads on this forum, and see that there is much depth to collecting and understanding the Enfield. Any comments on "wrong" parts... or provenance would be appreciated. If I get a chance, I will try and "white out" some of the markings for better photos!
Most people readily discount "drill rifles"... but they were shooters at one time... and still have much history beyond what they can do at the range! ;)

If Peter Laidler will comment, he's dealt with a bucket full of these I think. Others here too. Don't worry about "correct" parts. It is what it is. A collection starts with one. You have twice that already...

Looks good and fills a niche, I'd bet there are a few large collections that have overlooked this important part of the big picture, good start.

At least you know that this firearm was downgraded after long use in the service of it's country, not just slashed and welded like some De activated one, destroyed because of political stupidity.

Looks like it's a Springfield Sporters import. I would expect at least the firing pin to be cut.

Ah.... MK VII, I suspected that Springfield Sporters may have been the importer based on the markings... but I wasn't so sure if they ever imported such animals... I will look and see if I can find further information on this angle.

I also regard this as a "light demill" (although destructive) compared to 1903 Springfield's that I have seen.

When I figure out how to take the bolt apart, I will look for the clipped FP. The bolt is stamped DP in multiple locations, of which some are worn from use.
I must say that the barrel is awesome (despite the addition of extra holes)! I don't have a 303 for a "bullet test" at the muzzle. However, I must say that I think that "this" has a better barrel than my Jungle carbine that I posted here for ya' all to look at.
Browning,
I am just treating this as a learning curve, for when I put on my "big boy pants" and go shopping for "real" Enfields! I believe that if I can spot a rifle that isn't correct or wrongly repaired, I could save money when building the collection later one. I figured that an "Enfield was an Enfield" until reading through this forum! You guys have taught me a whole lot already!!

If I had this rifle Middy, I'd be thankful that I have something that is reasonably unusual, well marked, usually unloved but another of the genuine lineage of Enfield rifles that would fit well within any Enfield collection anywhere in the world. And guess what........... I bet VERY few of them have a genuine DP rifle. You have a grand old lady in your hands that has been in a Training Regiment for many, many years and has seen more parade grounds, training areas, recruits and bayonet galleries than the rest of us all put together

If I had it, here's what I'd do. I'd carefully strip the rifle down and set about getting rid of all of that grotty varnish with some chemicals or a sharp scraper, followed by some fine wire wool, remembering to keep the edges perfectly square then finishing it off with lashings of linseed oil.

Then I'd send the metalwork away to be bead blasted and phosphated and painted with a deep satin finish hard baked paint.

THEN I'd research, on this forum, the correct Indian Army colour codes/combinations of their DP rifles and accurately repaint the rifle as it would have been. The difference is that hopefully you'll use a proper paint brush whereas the Indian storemen use an old floor brush to paint with. Carefully assemble it then stand back and admire it.

You’ll soon find that as your Enfield enthusiast friends see it, you’ll get one of two reactions. The unknowing will just shrug their shoulders and make some off-hand comment. To those, you can just say words to the effect ‘……… that rifle isn’t a rifle any more. But do you realize that it’s probably seen more action as a DP than any of your rifles have ever seen on the battlefield. But even before it was a DP, it’d seem many years of service but STILL had sufficient life to be downgraded to the training role’. You could also mention that before anyone even picked up his service rifles, they’d done their square bashing and initial training with your DP. You won’t have to say anything to the knowing and wise will hold it in that way that lets you know that while they know a lot, they FEEL it too.

Yep, another TRUE variant from the Lee Enfield stable. Enjoy………..

Well Middy.............., what are you going to do with it? Don't keep us in suspense. Give us all a treat, preserve it as a DP and let's see the photos afterwards

Peter,
WOW! You are definitely a statesman! :bow: I read your statement several times, and I was moved to tears! LOL!
You articulated the point on leaving it as is, so well, I believe I am going to keep it as a DP rifle. As recommended, I am going to look into the Indian markings, and refinish accordingly. You are correct on the "marking" of the rifle. I have not seen a DP rifle so well marked. Hence I believe that I would regret altering it.
As you can appreciate, this will take some time to complete (rifle refinishing isn't my full time job)! I am also going to take some careful photo's before I do much with the rifle. As they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words". :thup:
I do have an Indian Bayonet inbound as we speak. What sold me on it, was that it also is marked "DP".
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ullsize1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...yoDPmark-1.jpg
I assume (but can be corrected) that this also stands for Drill Purposes. It is also from 1944 (not 1959). However, it is a start to getting the "kit" put together.
As for the sling, I am looking at a post war Brit sling until I can find something Indian marked. Any pointers in what an Indian sling would be marked with, would be appreciated. I am keen on getting the colors and fittings correct.

The easy thing for me to do, is clean up the wood. I am questioning the finish, since as was pointed it, this appears to be rather shiny. Would a "DP" rifle be shiny, or closer to what an actual rifle would look!:o

I am also looking at what type of paint to apply. I know that many people have been using "gunkote" or such finishes with good success.

As I mentioned before, this Forum has taught me much. I only hope that I can reciprocate as I restore this rifle to is proper glory!:cheers:

As a side branch to collectiing the Lee Enfield family, I have a group I call my 'painted rifles", these are generally DP's etc and I find them very interesting, and cheap to collect.

I have not seen an Indian marked DP SMLE in Australia, and would jump at this one if it came along. I do have a Indian P14 similaly marked with 1 inch bands to the mag/receiever.

I really would not do too much to it at all, without being able to have a close look, I would bet what is exactly how it left service.

The Indian Mk III * bayonet is the perfect match to this rifle.

Well done.

Gav,
Greetings to our brother "Down Under"!:wave:
You do give sage advice on not altering the rifle from its original condition... too much!

However, I am going to take "her" down and clean up the metal and check for rust and rot. As mentioned, I am a firm believe in documenting what you find! I do know that many people do not document... and seem to hoard knowledge!:madsmile:
Here is what I have so far to share!
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...edown035-1.jpg
Upper handguard with assorted marks.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...edown043-1.jpg
Here is the butt end of the stock! There are a set of numbers...
Now the serial number of the non- rifle is 6500U. As can be seen, the barrel matches the receiver... but the receiver has also had a set of number "x'd" out. It appears to be the same number.... so why it was "x'd" out is a mystery to me!
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...edown046-1.jpg
Here are some shots of the magazine...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...edown039-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...edown038-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_2516-1.jpg
I will try and brighten up the numbers on the metal later... and posts results!:)

Guys,
Well, the DP marked bayo came in! Fast speedy shipping, with an appropriate $$ deduced from my retirement account!:D
As received..
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_1256-1.jpg
Closeup of markings on the blade...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_1257-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_1259-1.jpg
Now down to the grips...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_1260-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_1261-1.jpg
Do I detect a slight hint of red?!?!:)
And now down to the end...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_1258-1.jpg
Perhaps some light markings, but not able to tell.

Now onto a sling....

The rifle is still down for a cleaning... hopefully something to show later!:cheers:

It would be a good idea to make sure the firing pin is shortened as people brought up on mousers may not realise the chamber is drilled - hard on the fingers !

We had DP bayonets in UK Military service but they weren't generally seen. There were a few spike and No9's in the Puiblic school Cadet Forces and some SLR bayonets at the central recruit training depots but they all had rounded tips and blunt edges to the blades. I've yet to see a DP SA80 bayonet except for one solitary one (and a very early, and rare 85 dated/serially numbered one at that too.............) that was used during a SA80 DP rifle trial.

Our L1A1's Brens/L54's and L59 rifles etc etc etc all had white bands around them somewhere in a hard specified enamel paint that was difficult to remove with the DP in black. India used the red/white bands as its DP mark so it makes me think that while Middy's DP bayonet is the real McCoy, it would have red/white bands. Maybe you bayonet fiends can advise him

There doesn't seem to be anything documented in the EMER's or AESP's (you got any current AESP info Skippy or Tankie.......) about DP spec bayonets and nothing in the old 70's V-150 EMER

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

If I had this rifle Middy, I'd be thankful that I have something that is reasonably unusual, well marked, usually unloved but another of the genuine lineage of Enfield Rifles that would fit well within any Enfield collection anywhere in the world..........

---

I agree with this statement almost entirely as the "dodgy" rifles I have acquired have been the source of most interest and learning. My own No1 has gone through EY to DP and back to "In proof" NOT!. Unfortunately from what I can gather, at least where I live, there is lately apparently no concept of "collecting" for many of us, so we must use the rifles we own.
Should all DP rifles perhaps be de-activated when Identified to avoid dastardly folk from grinding of the DP marks and selling them on as shootable with the possible associated risks?.
I wonder if it is legal in England to sell on a DP rifle as I don't see how they could be considered to be "In proof" when so obviously been condemned by the experts!. Or could it actually be re-proofed in civvy street when covered in DP marks?.
Is there any point in having a live firing DP rifle when you can't shoot it?.
Just the thoughts of a confused and naive beginner.

As I understand it JSS, when you've had a licence for a few years and have started to specialise and importantly, had a few articles published - or even a book or two, then you steer a path into the specialised 'collecting' area which is a good and valid reason to possess. That's as I understand it. Don't loose heart....... Just hang on in there and before you know it your Lee Enfields become your specialiased area of your 'collection'. What about a 'collection' of non firing DP's

As a matter of interest, as I've got a tenuous interest in these DP's as I formulated the 'plan' as they call it for the UK MoD DP's but does anyone have a smalish collection of them?

As I said, it doesn't affect me as my collection is owned by the Army. Can any others pass on some encouragement

JSS,
I build guns on other forums aside from this collector site. 90% of the "rifles" that I own, I don't shoot or have ammunition for them. Therefore the drive to "shoot what I own" isn't there for me. I enjoy collecting for collecting sake, and shooting for shooting sake... If I have a shooter, I take it out to my back porch. If it is a safe queen, it is marked as such, and kept to show people the history of firearms development.

As mentioned by Rowdy, the holes in the chamber COULD be ID'd as vent holes to an Initiate.... however, this rifle was clearly used for training purposes... up to cleaning the bore. Jamming a rod through the bore would NOT stop this rifle from being easily "restored". I will check the FP when I get a chance. However, with the bolt easily swapped out, this is still an issue.

DP rifles from various eras (in the States for example) exhibit different way to de-activate. I think that methods have "increased" as it became apparent that Folks could repair the rifles. As a recent example, many "non-rifles" regularly have the barreled welded to the receiver... AND the receiver cut away under the wood.

As to a live firing DP.... the concept would be to sub cal the rifle... to a safe pressure such as 9mm Nato or 22lr. I believe this was actually done in a Shotgun News were the gunsmith subcal'd a rifle down to 22lr. As ya'all know, attempting a "full power" round restoration is dicey due to hoop pressure and metallurgy. Grenades are a good example.

The other problem with activating DP's that you don't know the reason on why it was DP'd. As was pointed out: stretched receiver, cracks, damage or just a good extra rifle.

Frankly, short of instituting draconian rules, and reducing a rifle to smoldering slag via a torch, you will never stop "enterprising" individuals from showing off their dare devil or machining skills to spit in the face of gov't intervention.

I think that the statement has come out via the 1903 forum, is that you should notifiy a buyer that this rifle was a former DP gun, if you choose to re- activate it. Not everyone does this, so it goes back to "buyer be ware".

What has set this rifle apart from regular torched rifles, I believe, is the manner in which it was DP'd and documented.

All,
Back to the clean of up this DP rifle!

After gently cleaning the surface with a water based 3M paint stripper, and an old tooth brush, I have found this....
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...pairs002-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...pairs004-1.jpg
Two interesting repairs. I think that these will definitely give the rifle some character after I put it together. Arsenal repairs are not new or scary things... just part of the rifle history!:thup:
One thing that I do have to repair, is this crack, which I found while cleaning up the rifle. Left unattended, this could lead to a major problem in the future...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...airII003-1.jpg
The wood is solid in this region, so this should be an easy repair.
Careful cleaning leads to the preservation of the DP marks and cartouches on the stock...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...pairs005-1.jpg
As you will note, the magazine was clearly painted... however, there was little to no evidence of this being done to the receiver/ stock region... after peeling off some layers of grunge, this is what you find...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...airII001-1.jpg
The wood was clearly "banded". No shock there!:)

There are still dark splotches of stuff on the stock. I am going to use some turpentine to clean that off. Moving forward!:wave:

See the two little oak(?) pegs on those beautifully cut and crafted patches Middy, that shows the masses that the rifle was patched by a REAL Armourer. No grotty glue lines, no gorilla paste or plastic wood filler just craftsmanship. Make sure that you don't round the corners or edges off. Is that a crack across the undercut nose cap area? It looks like a deep scratch from here..... If that fore-end came across my bench with a crack like that I'd open up the split and inject it with some old hot bone animal glue and clamp up. It's not as good as current aero spec wood adhesive of course. Then I'd drill through from one side to the other and knock in a tight fitting oak peg then make off good.

And if someone sees it in 20 years time I'd say 'yep........ been patched by an Armourer and it'll still be there in another 40 years too'. JUst shows that it's been there, done it, got the tee shirt. JUst DON'T round off those edges any more

Peter,
Outstanding suggestion. Yes, it is a crack, but not a through crack... yet. I was thinking about using my "usual" technique of 2 part epoxy high strength adhesive. I don't use the 5 minute:nono: stuff. I let it soak into the wood fibers, therefore using the 2hr stuff. However, you bring up a good point about the peg. That isn't too hard to do, and would clearly indicate the repair (vs. trying in vain to hide it). As you know, there is a point of "over restoration". And clearly this rifle was used!:thup:

I haven't used the hot bone animal glue. Something for me to look into! :)

As a side discussion, what type of paint was used in the "banding"? I am thinking that this is something I am going to clearly look into doing right. It is a gun, so the solvents used in normal cleaning would eventually come in contact. What would you recommend? Recommend that I do have the bayonet to do. I can say that the banding paint has been applied rather "thick" in all observed locations. The paint has clearly wrinkled from over application.

Also, as a side comment, the repair in the buttstock is clearly "above" the current wood link. While I don't have a SMLE buttstock for comparison, you can see that this was a masterful and competent repair, but not a technique to "blend" the repair. :thup:

We used a paint called 'hard implement enamel' for the white bands on DP's. THere was a special part number for it but I suppose any enamel will do. The WORST and most destructive solvent we encountered was insect repellent in the tropics but you won't be anywhere that I'm sure. It'd melt AR15/M16 and SLR plastic handguards before your very eyes. Same with M-60 butts too..................

A nice to have in any collection, I remeber having DP SLRs when i was in cadets in the late 80s they had been properly done at lithgow till some swine broke into the armoury and stole a heap of them thinking they could be reactivated. The poor fools, the police then found them scattered around once the theives figured they couldnt fix them.
But once again it is a peice of the family tree and should look a treat once you do her up!
Regards
Fergs