1899 Remington Lee

A brief beginning of a photo and information thread dedicated to the last of the turnbolt Remington-Lee designs. (Driven by topic drift on the 1879 Remington Lee thread.)

See: 1879 Remington Lee Photos, etc. (Warning! LOTS of big photos) for the first model Lee.

ETA:Another link showing the 1899 in the hands of the Michigan National Guard:
1899 Remington Lee in Michigan

Some photos to start- There may be old repeats, but they haven't been seen by most folk:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SC000761-1.jpg
#1a) The US Lee family. From the top down:
"1899" Remington Lee
Winchester Lee Straightpull action
"1885" Remington Lee
"1882" Remington Lee
"1879" Remington Lee- originally produced by Sharps with a slighty simpler magazine that did not retain rounds well outside the weapon.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SC000671-1.jpg
#1b) Closer view of the action. There's no real safety, but the enlarged end of the cocking piece could be used to lower the striker- but it's not recommended as a general rule with a loaded round in the chamber!


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SC000711-1.jpg
#1c) "End of the line" for two divergent Lee design paths.

If I can ask.

Since the bottom three are likely .41 Spanish or .45-70, and the 1885 is most likely a 6mm Lee Navy, what caliber is the 1899 on top?

BTW. Many, many thanks for all that you're sharing.

As the bolt is the assembly most changed from model to model, let's start there.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00055-1.jpg
#3a)
What differentiates the last of the Remington Lees from virtually all other bolt actions are the four locking lugs- Two in the "traditional" Lee position at the rear of the ejection port and magazine well, and two new ones on the removable, but fixed (relative to the bolt body- quite the opposite from the familiar Lee-Enfield) bolt head near the chamber. These front lugs are also rotated about the bolt's longitudinal axis from the rear lugs! Nothing else quite like it and for good reason- in order for all bearing surfaces to absorb rearward thrust during firing, many more features have to be either extremely carefully toleranced, or quite a bit of hand fitting would have to be required. It's not "bad" design, but it surely had to be expensive to manufacture!

Removal from the action is relatively straightforward. First open the bolt and safety check the weapon, then close the bolt and decock. Raise the bolt handle but do not move it to the rear. On the right hand rear locking lug rib there is a spring loaded pivoting arm which must be raised slightly at the rear and then rotated towards the right/bolt handle/ejection port side as shown below on a bolt already removed.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00059-1.jpg
#3b)
When the arm is in the position shown above, the front of the arm may be drawn outward from the bolt assembly. This action will free the bolt head. Pull the bolt to the rear and use the rear locking surfaces to dislodge the bolthead from the body. The bolt should now freely slide to the rear and out of the action body. Pick the bolthead assembly from the action raceway. Note that the extractor will easily detatch from the head, so keep an eye on it! A spare is likely hard to find.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00068-1.jpg
#3c)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SC000611-1.jpg
#3d)

What should be loose so far:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00060-1.jpg
#3e)

In order to fully disassemble the bolt like so,

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00070-1.jpg
#3f)

, press the firing pin towards the rear whilst keeping the cocking piece forward against the bolt body. If it hasn't been apart in a while the parts may be "glued" together, so a good long soak in penetrating oil may be in order. Regardless, what needs to happen is that the small knob screwed to the striker must be pressed far enough rearward to clear the stud protruding from the back of the cocking piece. When the knob is no longer restrained from rotating, unscrew it in an anti-clockwise direction (as seen from the rear), whilst maintaining rearward pressure on the striker. When the knob is removed the striker will be free to slide forward through the cocking peice and bolt body. Again, if this bolt hasn't been apart for a while a bit of persuading may be required.

Re-assembly? No hints! (Well, OK, just be sure that the striker tail protrusion from the rear of the striker retaining knob is the same as before diassambly!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sojerguy

If I can ask.

Since the bottom three are likely .41 Spanish or .45-70, and the 1885 is most likely a 6mm Lee Navy, what caliber is the 1899 on top?

BTW. Many, many thanks for all that you're sharing.

---

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff043-1.jpg
4) Just a guess, but "30 USA" probably stood for .30" caliber United States Army cartridge, as the .30-40 Krag round was THE government issue cartridge at the time.


The 1899's are MOSTLY .30 Army (i.e. .30-40 Krag). The 1885's are either found in .43 Spansh or .45-70. The Winchester Lee is the 6mm.

(Too pokey too get the first two posts together, I am. Hence the lack of immediate reply- too much photo work and painfully slow typing. One and one half hours for one post! ) :banghead:

If you want history and production details on the Remington Lees, there's one "go to" book, written by one of our members:

THE REMINGTON-LEE RIFLE by Eugene Myszkowski

This thread won't attempt to regurgitate too much of his work. It's well worth getting a copy!

If anyone has an 1899 with a good bore and won't mind sharing a range report, it would be most welcome! Mine has the typical rotten bore which is due to a primary diet of blank cartridges. A friend has a Cuban carbine that looks better, rifling-wise, except for the last inch or so, which is completely "wallered out". So shooting results are apt to be dismal at best, and "ill advised" for the most part. ALMOST bought one to rebarrel, but it just wouldn't be the same, so opportunity lost...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmoore

More coming!

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Thanks JM, and please keep the info coming!

Patrick

JM,

I do have Eugene's book, and during my 10 days or sp back in the US (from SW asia), I hope to get some trigger time in. The reason for my questuons. Apparently the one I purchased via gun-booger is in very good shape. It was made withth the numbers of the Mich Nat'l Guard (militia?), and is apparently still in origianl trim. We'll see.

I was hoping your 1899 was chambered in one of the esoteric cartridges mentioned by Eugene.

Now about loading the rifle ...

Magazine and single shot loading details in this post:

The Remington !899 works well as a single loader with the magazine removed, due to a spring loaded, auto-retracting cartridge loading plate. Just drop a round in the port and close the bolt.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00064-1.jpg
#8a1)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tuff0011-2.jpg
#8a2) Note the large area devoted to the single loading platform on the lower half of the action body.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tuff0041-1.jpg
#8a3) The single loading platform from the front (inverted).

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tuff0051-2.jpg
#8a4) Interiior side view of the single loading platform.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00063-1.jpg
#8b) Bottom view showing the single loading platform blocking the magazine well sufficiently to keep rounds from falling through when the magazine is removed.




However, loading from the magazine is easy. Unlike the Lee-Enfield, the "drop free" single stack magazine of the Remingtons requires the user to remove the magazine in order to refill it. Inserting the individual rounds is accomplished much like a .22 rimfire box magazine in that each round is introduced to the magazine body just forward of the rear feed lips, pressed down, and then slid to the rear. Repeat up to five times to fully fill the magazine.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff005-2.jpg
#8c)

Then just press the full magazine home until the magazine catch (located in the trigger guard area like all turnbolt Lees) locks it in place.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SC000661-1.jpg
#8d) The usual Lee magazine set-up. Mag catch and sear work off the same "U" shaped spring.

The magazine itself utilizes a single "U" shaped follower spring as first seen on the 1882 model. It's a little different in that the 1899 model's spring is made of two thin layers. Mine is happy in it's mag body, so i did not remove it.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff006-1.jpg
#8e)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...elds0021-1.jpg
#8e.1) The 1885 model magazine spring as removed from the magazine body as general example of the type used in the 1899s as well. Note that it also functions as a "bump stop" for cartridge noses- protecting the soft housing metal. (Not a real issue with lead bullets).

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff007-1.jpg
#8f)


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff001-1.jpg
#8g)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff002-3.jpg
#8h)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff003-1.jpg
#8i)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff004-2.jpg
#8j)

Action body and associated parts photos: ( and text coming! Just not quickly, sorry)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tuff0021-1.jpg
#9a)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff014-1.jpg
#9b) Note the squared of locking surfaces. Easier to manufacture but the disadvantages are a less smooth operating cycle and less camming for operation in adverse conditions.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff008-1.jpg
#9c) Magazine well from the bottom with the single loading platform removed. The upper surfaces are not feed lips but rather magazine travel limiters. The protruding pin at the lower left is the pivot for the magazine catch (partially removed).

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff011-1.jpg
#9d)


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff009-1.jpg
#9e)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00069-1.jpg
#9f)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff012-1.jpg
#9g)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tuff0071-1.jpg
#9h)


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00065-1.jpg
#9i) Top view: Note that the spring loaded ejector in this action (different from the ones shown above with the blue background) has swung across the bolt path, but will move out of the way when the bolt is re-inserted. The other action's ejector won't pivot nearly this far!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...uff00111-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...uff00112-1.jpg
#9j&k) Detail shots of the ejector spring recess, and the ejector spring with screw. Another design shift from the earlier models and the Lee Enfield series.


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff029-1.jpg
#9L)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff028-1.jpg
#9m)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff026-1.jpg
#9n)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff027-1.jpg
#9o)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff025-1.jpg
#9p)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tuff0061-1.jpg
#9r) Sear, sear/magazine catch spring, and magazine catch removed from the action. All the US Lees have single stage triggers; the Lee-Enfields received a two stage trigger during their development. Otherwise, this area is fairly consistant for all Lee turnbolts.

Sights:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff015-1.jpg
#10a) Remington 1899 rifle rear sight. Carbine rear sight photo coming soon- hopefully!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff016-1.jpg
#10b) A rather odd sight blade profile.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff017-1.jpg
#10c) Standard, if a bit worn-possibly slightly modified for parade use, blade front sight.

Stock and "fixed" fittings: (roughing in at this point- check back later for a more finished product)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff039-1.jpg
#11a)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff040-1.jpg
#11b) Nose cap with bayonet lug details. The projection on the bottom of the cap (as shown on the top of the inverted stock in the photo above) is to restrain the front band from forward motion under recoil.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff038-1.jpg
#11c)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff037-1.jpg
#11d)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff041-1.jpg
#11e) Middle band retaining spring clip.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff036-1.jpg
#11f) Note the cleaning rod retaining piece at the right hand side of the photo. Simple bar stock with a threaded hole centered in the front side.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff035-1.jpg
#11g) Top view of the action inletting.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff042-1.jpg
#11h) Action/trigger guard inletting

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff033-1.jpg
#11i) Heel markings and top view of buttplate.

"Removable" fittings:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff047-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff048-1.jpg
#12a&b)




https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff045-1.jpg
#12c

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff046-1.jpg
#12d) Very simple cleaning rod that likely had a loose extention. One piece, with the slotted area slightly flattened. Note the lack of threads on the slotted end in photos 12a and b.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff019-1.jpg https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff020-1.jpg
#12e&f) Two views of the front band, both from the front looking rearwards. The swivel is non-detatchable and retains the hex-headed clamping nut.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff023-1.jpg https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff022-1.jpg https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff021-1.jpg
#12g,h,&i) Rear band. Unidirectional in function, so there's no small "U" marking on the side to indicate the proper orientation. What's odd is that the clamping screw enters from the opposite side as the front band.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff030-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff031-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff032-1.jpg
#12j,k,&L) Simple, no reinforcements, handguard. There's an integral overhang on the front of the action body that retains the handguard rear.

It's not a US service rifle but here's some preliminary photos of a Remington Lee .30-40 Cuban contract carbine:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff015-2.jpg
#13a
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff016-2.jpg
#13b: Sorry about the fold in the blue cover obscuring part of the fore end tip- It will be a while before more and better photos can be done.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff017-2.jpg
#13c
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff020-2.jpg
#13d
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff021-3.jpg
#13e
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff022-3.jpg
#13f
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff023-2.jpg
#13g
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff028-3.jpg
#13h
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff018-3.jpg
#13i
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff034-1.jpg
#13j

Some more hastily photographed details of the Remington Lee "1899 Model" carbine:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff019-4.jpg
#14a: No real differences in the action, but there are some differences in the markings from the rifle shown earlier.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff029-3.jpg
#14b: The bolt head stop arm is installed and is pivoted outwards on this action, unlike the rifle which is missing this mysterious little part. (RH side of the action, just above the locking lug.)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff025-3.jpg
#14c

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tuff0261-1.jpg
#14d: Note that the side mounted rear swivel appears to be a standard Remington buttstock swivel, just relocated.

Having a hard time finishing the photos and commentary on this rifle type. Given some incentive, perhaps a bit more progress will be made without a huge delay. Being able to shoot one and having someexpectations as to a good range report would help. But neither of these examples (only one of which is mine) has a good bore- the carbine's is probably the better of the two, but it has a very weak muzzle. Your patience is appreciated!

Does anyone know where one can obtain a bolt for the 1878 Remington-Lee? Bolt handle is in front of receiver lug.

Adding a link to another thread in the Milsurps forums showing some photos of the 1899 rifle in the hands of the Michigan National Guard:

1899 Remington Lee in Michigan

my remington lee has caliber .43 spanish ,is a ex trials rifle of the suisse rifles board ,came out a suisse museum auction
it as a cook type magazine of the 2nd generation mentioning on right side "pat'd. march 7th 1882 " and P under this text
no proof stamps only serial 6399 and the regular text on receiver
receiver has the m1882 long ledge as mentioned in gene myzkowks book on page 37
on the buttstock toe is a copper disk with centre screw ,mentioning " M+S above 396 "?????
the rifle is in excelent condition over all (no scratches or dings ,all fittings have caseharden marble colouring even the buttplate
have schot the piece at 100 m with 22 gn vitha n110 and 16 gn n340 plus dacron 2/3 gn as a keeper ,regular .439 sized lyman bullet a

---------- Post added at 12:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------

sorry touched wrong button ,was not finished yet , would tell:used bertram cases nice groups but have to learn the sights ,no signs of overpressure , us same loads in other BPCR's berdan I and II , gras , mausers 71 /71/84 and many others with plus minus same case capasity .
greetings from over the pond
jarmann

forgot to mention that both slingswivels are marked "patd feb 11 th 1868 " why this is importand ? they like very common to me ,only the upper swivel has a hex headed clamp nut like the swivel pictures of jmoore on thread no 12
regreetings
jarmann

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jarmann

my remington lee has caliber .43 spanish ,is a ex trials rifle of the suisse rifles board ,came out a suisse museum auction it as a cook type magazine of the 2nd generation mentioning on right side "pat'd. march 7th 1882 " and P under this text

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Interesting rifle! There's a photo thread of this type Remington Lee (1882/1885) coming, in theory, but maybe you ought to start your own in the
Milsurps General Discussion Forum .

It seems like a worthy subject on it's own!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmoore

.....If anyone has an 1899 with a good bore and won't mind sharing a range report, it would be most welcome! Mine has the typical rotten bore which is due to a primary diet of blank cartridges. A friend has a Cuban carbine that looks better, rifling-wise, except for the last inch or so, which is completely "wallered out". So shooting results are apt to be dismal at best, and "ill advised" for the most part. ALMOST bought one to rebarrel, but it just wouldn't be the same, so opportunity lost...

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J,

Thank you for the excellent series of posts.

I've been shooting a Rremington-Lee in 30/40 for about 15 years. It was "sporterized" and had a boogered chamber when I bought it from Ron Peterson's shop in Albuquerque. Ron was **not** happy about the warranty work to repair the drilled-out chamber, but he paid for it. Work done by Bedeaux et Fils.

The rifle's good parts are light weight, quick handling, the detachable magazine, and a very strong action. Not-so good points include the half-cock safety which is both unsafe and too slow for hunting use.

This rifle, I never really found the formula for it. It would shoot 3 inch groups at 100 yards but I never got it to shoot as well as my Krag, inspite of its sharp rifling. The barrel is quite light and may be whipping. What the rifle will do is easily shoot the "Ruger only" loads in the Hodgdon manual, or recommended loads for the .308 in other manuals. I think the bolt head on mine was nickel steel, since it stayed bright.

This particular rifle, I'm thinking, was from a cancelled sale, and was in a lot picked up dirt-cheap, perhaps by Bannerman's. The bore is like new.

If there is interest, I'll take it out and run a box of 180gr reloads through it.

jn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon_norstog

I've been shooting a Rremington-Lee in 30/40 for about 15 years. It was "sporterized"...

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I'm wondering if the loss of fore end support may have adversely affected it's accuracy. Was the barrel cut shorter, or just the stock modified? Regardless, a range report would be great!

Ypsilanti (Michigan) Historical Society Photo Archives, online digital image, showing 1900 winter parade. Photo of SAW Veterans/Michigan National Guardsmen marching west on Congress Street at the bridge.
(IMHO: I would guess parade is on Thanksgiving or New Year's Day. Rail Tracks on Ypsilanti street probably Railroad or Inter-urban. Men are carrying 1899 Lees in unusual manner, maybe due to cold, strong wind, treacherous footing and road sloping up hill).

Maybe before or after parade? Going to a muster point. Parades are formal affairs and they are not in any kind step.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

Shoot it Jon! I'd love to have one of the 1899s in 30/40 to play with in Vintage matches, always liked being different! I note that the 1899s two front lugs would have come about after the 1898 2200fps Krag load debacle. Perhaps an attempt by Remington to produce a rifle that would handle the load and get a govt contract as the Krag's replacement.

Hi, will a earlier model 4570 mag work and fit in the Model 1899?
Or did the magazine get redesign for the 1899?
I saw a 1899 in 7mm and think that's the odd duck caliber for these.
Thanks
Mike

'mwhite49' - The Model 1899 Remington-Lee used a different magazine than the earlier models in Black-Powder calibers.