It sucks when you realize you've been had!

Ok, after eight years I've got my Lee Enfield collection back. By most of the people here's standard it's a tiny group of rifles hardly worth dignifying with the monniker 'collection', but they are mine and I love them.

Here's the list;

No 4 Mk1 1942 LSA 2 groove very clean and shoots really well.
No 4 Mk1* 1950 Long Branch with a very nice bore and a stock that's a bit dinged.
No 4 Mk2 1955 Fazakerly unissued (The holy grail) that is a dream to shoot.
No 1 2A1 1967 Ishapor that I have plans for because it shoots 308 and it groups tight.
No 1 Mk3 1945 Lithgow unissued that I have yet to shoot but is very pretty.

Ok you lot in the back of the room, stop s******ing! With the advent of the internet I've just found out the last one is essentially a fake. What's more I paid more for it than any of the others. In my defense I bought it almost twenty years ago before the interweb was really prevalent. It was in a glossy ad at the back of Shotgun News and I had my local gun shop get it for me. Then I stuck it in the rack and just loved and dusted it because it was so valuable (har har). We moved away and now we're back and I've got my babies out of safe keeping and now I know I was taken all those years ago, well sort of. The rifle certainly looks and feels brand new and the barrel looks unfired. The stock is coachwood without a blemish and all the metal is parkerized.

As I have said I have yet to take it out and before I do I want to take care of a couple of issues because I'd like this expensive SMLE to be as good as it can be.

The first is that I'm almost certain that this coachwood stock doesn't have recoil pads installed. I haven't looked but everything I've read about these rifles leads me to this assumption. Coachwood seems to notorious for splitting/shattering and this stock is so pretty that I'd prefer it to not happen to it. Is it worth me trying to do the recoil pads myself or is there a gunsmith in the Pacific Northwest of the USA that could do this job for me?

The second is possibly an operator stupidity error or maybe something more onerous. I don't seem to be able to remove the bolt from the weapon. Now remember I've played with Hradini (my Ishy) and the other ladies and pulling the bolts doesn't seem to be an issue. However Sheila refuses to let go of her bolt. Here's the procedure.

1, remove magazine.
2, make sure safety is off.
3, rotate and slide bolt all the way back.
4, unclip and rotate bolthead anticlockwise so that the runner points stright up.
5, pull back bolt and clear the receiver.
6, the bolt should now be in my hand.

Except when I rotate the bolthead it binds in the receiver and the bolt locks tight in the receiver and will not move. Once I rotate the bolthead back down and click it back into the runner guide the bolt moves in and out of battery fine. Everything is working as it should be, I just can't extract the bolt out of the rifle. Is something defective? I'm a little concerned shooting her until I know that the bolt is ok.

Any and all thoughts will be gratefully received.

regards,

Paul.

Did you get burned? It sounds like you had more than a few years of enjoyment from the rifles and that has a value in itself. I have a '44 I bought just to look at and display and one day I plan on boxing it up in a glass front case and donate it to the local VFW. I will get a good felling from that and a lot more than if I had the money donated because after the club spent the money the memory would be gone. Plus long after I'm gone the boys will still be looking at that rifle and downing a few in memory I hope.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bb4b33b1-1.jpg

I got burned only in the sense that the rifle probably never existed in it's current form in Australia. Apparently a guy called John Jovino had a company here in the US called JJCO and he bought up all the old SMLE parts from Lithgow and assembled a batch of 'Unissued' rifles. After carefull study of the rifle I found the JJCO stamp at the bottom of the stripper feeder. My post was a little tongue in cheek because I really love the rifle and it certainly appears I have a pretty reman SMLE in my rack. However it's not an 'Unissued Lithgow' it's a parts gun built here in the USA.

Of greater concern to me is the issue of the bolt. I intend to shoot this rifle but I need to get it thoroughly checked out before I do.

Take a look at the safety and push it forward for fire and try that, the safety will progressively bind the bolt as it gets moved around if its half or full on.

oops, sorry, I now see you've thought of that

John jovino also imported a ton of rifles which were already completed so you're not necessarily correct. I beleive an A suffix to the serial number indicate a put together in the united states. As regards the recoil plates. if they're not there you can fit some and then it shoudl be fine to shoot - once you get the bolt issue sorted out - and I bet it looks gorgeous. Plus of course as you got it 20 years ago you probably paid about $45 for it.

A check of the Serial number prefix (or suffix) and format would help tell the tale. The usual format for a Jovino bitser's s/n is a 4 digit number with an 'A' suffix, but other numbering schemes have shown up.

Post a good photo and check the #'s.

Mine has an un-issued '44 bayonet too so it will glass up nice. Maybe I should gold plate the trigger and striker knob and sights too,,LOL.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4bdd00a3-1.jpg

.................:surrender:.................

A bolt head should turn down freely until the extractor housing aligns exactly with the rib on the bolt body. If yours is fitted too tightly it will be difficult or impossible to align it for removal using normal finger pressure. There's a tiny bit of "wiggle room" here when the bolt is in battery which would explain why it seems to cycle normally. Another possibility is some type of damage to the striker causing it to bind. Try removing the bolt again and see if the extractor housing is actually lining up. If not, pull the cocking piece back and see if that helps. If the alignment is still not correct you may need to tap the head a bit until it is.

Ok, many thanks for the points made regarding the Lithgow. It's definitly a ''bitser' the serial number is A223. The odd thing is that I can't find any other serial number cancelled or otherwise. For what it's worth I've included images of the markings and the rifle itself. As to the bolt the only scenario that I can think of is that the rifle was assembled somewhere hot which opened up the receiver tolerances. It's either that or it shrunk with old age. Last night I very gently tapped out the bolt using a nylon mallet with some terry cloth wrapped around the bolt handle. This is where I tapped it out. I was very careful/gentle and after about 20 minutes the bolt was free of the receiver. As you can see from the images there were some high spots on the bolt head. How they got there I don't know and I haven't fired the rifle and the barrel was definitly heavily filmed with cosmo. After cleaning the barrel it appears to have been unused. Where the bolt interfaces with the bolt body there were definitly some light ridges flaring out from the trailing edge of the bolt body. See the images. The bright spots are the points that were binding on the receiver as I was tapping it out. Also the end of the extractor screw was too proud and was also catching on the reciever. I used a Sharpie pen in lue of engineers blue (works a treat) to work out where the high spots were once I started to very gently grind the head (more polish really) with a Dremel with a small paper sanding disk. I stayed away from the bolt face and I removed a tiny amount of metal. It took me about an hour because I really didn't want to screw it up. The bolt now moves perfectly. Very silky and smooth. Like I said, I removed a miniscule amount of metal but I'd really like to know what caused it in the first place and how the heck did the 'armourer' get the bolt in there in the first place!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Myladies-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...heBitser-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...167small-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...164small-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...169small-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...166small-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...173small-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...176small-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...177small-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...178small-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...182small-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...183small-1.jpg

What's that ragged metal on the bolthead in the 2nd last picture?

nice rifle, yes the bolt looks like she has had a bit of mistreatment but i would say before it was put together by the looks of that mushroom on the backend of the bolt head. How they got the bolt in would be a bit of either brute force or just not caring! but youve done a good bit of work there to get it out without wrecking it.
Regards
Fergs

You were asking about fitting the recoil pads to the fore-end. If I was you, I wouldn't give the copper recoil pads house room because looking at them through an engineers eye, it's like jacking your car up on sand! The car is sound and the jack is sound but the sand - or in this case - the fore-end is a stable wood but soft! Furthermore.........., I mean......... who ever heard of screwing a short wood screw down, along the grain of a relatively soft and oily wood?

I'd get a good Armourer to cut the area of the draws out as shown several times on this forum and patch in a block of hard wood, such as oak with the grain running the length of the draws (or recoil shoulders as you call them) in the body.

When finished, you have a correct fit of the draws in the fore-end, along the grain of the hardwood patch but better still, across a far greater area.

As taught to me by AQMS 'Jock' Annandale at the Base Ortdnance Depot workshop in Ngaruawahia

...see the snag here Peter with some of your advice , while it is the best advice, is that there is an extreme absence of ANY armorers, not to mention GOOD ones around most places in the US. Some of us are trying and learning, but I for instance have screwed up two perfectly serviceable forends and had to bed with expoxy one other, trying to learn the art of bedding rifles and would not in a million years try to take on a chisel out and recreate the draws type project. Out here it's tough to find a gunsmith who will even fit Enfield barrels - I have to send mine 250 miles to an old guy in the sticks as he's the only one i've found who can do it wihout botching it.

Point taken Newcastle........... All advice given with the best intentions of course. God, I should have taken Brians advice many, many years ago when he said that I could make a killing living and working in the US. I didn't realise that a) there was a shortage of real Armourers, b) that there were plenty of Enfields.

It's easy tolook from the sidelines too. Whenh we were apprentices we made all sorts of horrendous mistakes. Some could be rectified and some couldn't so the job was consigned to the scrap but after 3 years, we could toodle along with the rest of them. Troublingly, they aren't turning out old style Armourers any more

Regarding barrel fitting, just take my detailed instructions and TELL the fitter '......this is how I want you to do it' When I was restoring an old 1969 Mini Cooper, when it came to a job that I couldn't do, such as the upholstery, I took it to several so called 'car trimmers' and TOLD them what I wanted. I also said that if you don't do it like this.........., then don't start the job. When noone wanted to lead-load the patched welded seams (they wanted to use splodge and filler), I learned to lead load.

Sorry, going off at one of my tangents.............. But I get your drift

You could still earn a packet over here and would be most welcome:):):) There are probably more Enfields here in California than there are in the entire UK and we're one of teh least gun friendly states. Funny thing is though that I can always seem to find a better bargain in Nevada when visiting the Father in law, because when you can own a Tommy gun or Bren Gun, who wants an old bolt action rifle.

I would have the headspace checked carefully by a qualified smith. I have seen one of Jovino's rifles right out of the box that had serious headspace problems that bolt heads could not correct.

I understood those many years ago that Jovino had purchesd some unassembled or leftover Lithgow receivers to build these rifles on. I am no longer sure of whether the rifles were built on old rifles, new and unassembled parts or from receivers made up long after WWII. The latter seems unlikely as the rifles were pretty inexpensive, so I am unsure how anyone could make new receivers and a profit at the same time.

BTW, that's a nice looking collection of Enfields.

The bolt head's a bit of an old dog, (been heavily buffed) but the rest is beautiful. Lucky you!