WW2-era Browning Hi-Power - what can you tell me?

A question for y'all.

My wife has a Browning Hi-Power that she inherited from her grandfather. He was in the OSS during WW2, and my understanding is that the OSS guys preferred the Hi-Power to the 1911. Matching serial numbers, and from what I've found based on the serial it was probably made ~early 1945 (serial is 4CH3XXX). It's a Mk.I*, with stamps from the Inglis armory in Canada, plus the two crossed flags that I believe is also an Inglis marking. It's got the slot on the back of the butt for the wooden holster/stock.

Haven't been able to take pictures, 'cause my phone is being a dick, but it looks like this.

I'd greatly appreciate anything more y'all can tell me about this one.

The CH stands for Chinese contract. It's possible the OSS liked them but I should think they would want something small. Maybe silenced. The Hi Power was a favorite of many powers because it was a hi cap mag before it's time. The most of anyone. Germany adopted the Belian model of 1935 when they over ran Belgium. They will have Nazi proofs. An aquaintance of mine carried one and it's mentioned in the book Gathering of Eagles when he was guarding SS Geneal Kurt Myer. It says his revolver but he told me it was a Hi Power.

Anyway, it was and still is an all around favorite. It's a standard 9MM and will handle just about anything you have. I've had several and right now I have a Mk 3 in .40 cal. The buttstocks come available occasionally.

Thanks. What does Chinese contract mean, exactly? He did spend some time in China towards the end/after the war IIRC.

There are quite a few records of U.S. pistol shipments to the OSS during WWII including the 1911A1 and Colt Pocket Model Hammerless. An Inglis High Power may have been picked up in China, but it would not have been an issue weapon. The OSS had huge training programs in China during WWII.

From what I've seen, the OSS and SAS both used the Hi-Power with some frequency, even if it wasn't official. This one was made between August and October of 1945 (based on the serial), but no Chinese characters anywhere.

There were two contracts for the Inglis as made by the John Inglis company.( They also made Bren guns ) One was called the British contract that has a T in the serial number and the other the Chinese contract which has the CH in the number. The Chinese contract pistols were slotted for the holster stock and have the adjustable rear sight while the first contract has the rear sight milled out of the slide and most did not have the slot cut in the grip but some of them do have this but it was a case of using what ever frame was available at the time to keep the British contact going. If the OSS in Europe used a Hi-Power it would have been one of the British contract guns. While it's called the British contract,most of the pistols issued were used by Canadian forces and not by the British army. The Chinese pistols were made in two different time frames as there was a disagreement about these pistols. Seems the Chinese didn't really want them as there was a problem finding enough 9mm ammo for them. They did have the 7.62x25 Mauser ammo for the Broomhandles that were very popular in China at the time but not much 9mm. If I remember right the Canadian government sent a large shipment of 9mm ammo to them along with the second run of pistols. But the great thing about the Inglis is that it was built to withstand the use of higher pressure ammo made for use in sub guns so what ever ammo was available could used in it. They are a well built reliable firearms that are accurate enough to be used in just about any combat situation.

That jives with what I know. My wife's grandfather was in China at some point, so it makes sense that he'd have a Chinese contract one. No Chinese characters anywhere on it, and no import markings (plus all matching serial numbers, as I said). There are the remnants of a sticker on the front of the grip; was mainly gold with some red and blue. No clue what that is, and the rim of the sticker is all that's left unfortunately.

Thanks Bruce.

A lot of Chinese marked Inglis No1 and 2 pistols used to end up in South Vietnam in the hands of the VC. Our intelligence people told us that they were sent down South because 9mm ammo was more readily available down there. Mind you, someone else - depending on who you wanted to believe - told us that they were left behind by the British in the 40's or the French in the 50's. Some were in VERY good condition with little sign of the poor storeage that was usually aparent on VC weaponry

Interesting to know. I don't think that's what happened to this one (her grandfather was not involved in Vietnam as far as I know), but interesting to know nonetheless.

What you have on the front of the grip is what is left of a sticker that was the Canadian Maple Leaf in the center and around it was a boarder in Chinese and English. Very colorful in red and yellow. A fuuny thing about Hi-Powers is you never know where they will turn up such as the Inglis in Nam. BUT China also had a contract with FN and crates of them came down from the north into South Viet Nam. The one good thing about it was the ammo that was also used was of very poor quality and there were many duds in the lots. I know of a barge full of FN made Hi-Powers that went into the Mekong after everyone there took what they wanted.

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Originally Posted by raskolnik

... No Chinese characters anywhere on it, and no import markings (plus all matching serial numbers, as I said). There are the remnants of a sticker on the front of the grip; was mainly gold with some red and blue. No clue what that is, and the rim of the sticker is all that's left unfortunately.

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The China contract was actually a Lend Lease programme. Large numbers of the "Chinese contract" Inglis's never made it out of Canada let alone to China. Many went to Commonwealth countries as well. The sticker was a Lend Lease sticker. It had a Maple Leaf, and inscriptions in English, Russian and Chinese. Clive Law's excellent book, Inglis Diamond; The Canadian High Power Pistol, offers a detailed history and is well worth the cost.

Hello, I have been reading the posts concerning the HP. I have been using it professionally for the past 25 years and won a service pistol championship with one made in 1945 only 2 weeks ago.No expert but a veteran end-user.It never ceases to amaze me how a short run of production in the time period of 1944-45 with less than 155,000 made is still in service. Did you know that most of our opponents or belligerants as we call them in the CANFORCES shot at us with it since 1944 ? Their are records of the Inglis HP being used against canadian troops in Korea , Suez incident, Cyprus, Belgian Congo, Lebanon, Rwanda,Bosnia , Haiti, etc.. and more recently Afhganistan. If more interest , i will post more of my experiences with it.

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Originally Posted by raskolnik

That jives with what I know. My wife's grandfather was in China at some point, so it makes sense that he'd have a Chinese contract one. No Chinese characters anywhere on it, and no import markings (plus all matching serial numbers, as I said). There are the remnants of a sticker on the front of the grip; was mainly gold with some red and blue. No clue what that is, and the rim of the sticker is all that's left unfortunately.

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I have two examples in my collection. A No1 with tangent sight and shoulder stock fittings with no military aid board sticker ( MAB ) and a No2 with a sticker. Altought the No1 has been called the ''Chinese '' contract, literature suggests most of it was used by Commonwealth troops and maybe some Brit and US special OPS units . All pistols made at Inglis it seems at first were destined for military aid so i deduct th at they all beared the famous sticker. Only late in the war did the Canadian miltary express interest in it and only after cancellation of the ''Chinese '' contract.. So exemples transferred to Canadian military custody would of been MAB marked. I have had access to 100's of Inglis pistols in my career and have never seen one with the sticker but th at is expected as they would of had received 60 plus years of cleaning and scrubbing . Only recently have i had acces to a No 2 with the sticker still intact. I have met officers from various Commonwealth countries with experience with the Inglis and one that marked my imagination forever. This gentleman had been in the Falklands with an Inglis No2 on a shoulder holster and had used it.. He did not mention the presence of a sticker ... More to follow

I suspect that the first delivery to China eventualy fell into Communist Forces hands. They were used subsenquently against Canadian troops in Korea even as Betune , the famed canadian doctor was still being presented as an icon of Chinese idealism. Subsequent sea shipments to India and Pakistan for air transport to China over the Burmese ''hump '' were stalled on the warfs it seems, never being shipped to its intended end user . These ''lost '' and forgotten pistols the exact amount i do not recall but is in the literature already mentionned , ended up 62 years later in the hands of the Taliban used again against Canadian troops. My sources have not specified nor did i ask if the MAB sticker was still present....

i have two in my collection a no1 and a no2 , i have the stock - here is what it looks like ,

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ONETS039-1.jpg

Very nice there A-square.Any trace of the MAB stickers ? Are your magazines JI marked ? I have a nice collection of genuine canadian military holsters for them, 7 actually , all different. Where can i go to get instruction to post pictures on this nice site ? Thanks. Bob

Major Bob, I would seriously dispute the person if he says that he was in the British Army down in the Falklands operation and had a Canadian Inglis No1 with a shoulder stock. And to have USED it with the shoulder stock would be be, in my humble opinion, laughable. It just wasn't possible!

While the old No2 pistols were still around, they were generally speaking with the rear echelon units. As for shoulder stocks, in my service, from 1963, including my apprenticeship, I only ever saw one and that was during my apprenticeship where one of the instructore (Mr 'eddy' Stone) had one in his drawer that he showed us as an illustration/aid to identify the No1/2 Mk1/1* pistols that we had alongside our old No2 revolvers

Contrary to previous postings, Canadian Forces inventories do include Brownings with Lend Lease stickers. In 1990 when 90 HQ and Sigs Sqn was stood up to go to Bahrain, we drew war reserve small arms. I had a nice new C7 and the officers drew Brownings. One Intelligence Capt shared his amazement at receiving a perfect New Out of the Box handgun. The decal was immaculate and the Parkerizing unscuffed. Seventeen years and a couple of wars later, I carried a very fine Browning in Afghanistan. It did not have a sticker, but was clearing not drawn from training use stores. Armies do somethings wrong, but on the CF concentrated training wear and tear on certain groups of guns. The good ones were not allowed to deteriorate willynilly on annual qualifications or holster wear on exercise.

I meant ''in '' a shoulder holster. The wooden shoulder holster you refer to is the ''Chinese'' holster and i have never heard it used by anyone in the Allied camp.It is rather silly. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I met this fine British officier in Suffield Alta. He did'nt look like he was joking or anything. Anyway , thanks . Major Bob

Right on Maple Leaf.Thanks for the confirmation. I recently bought a No2 with the MAB sicker still attached. True that well worn pistols are used at annual qualifications. We can still score pretty good with them.I heard rumors that we had still War stores of unused Inglis pistols in Longue-Pointe Depot in Montréal.. Now you just confirmed that. Amazing , it has been 62 years since they were made. Major Bob

Attachment 27867Attachment 27866Attachment 27865

This is what i was describing before.:wave:

Any comments ?

Thanks.

Major Bob

Attachment 27868

Here is my ''Chinese contract'' Inglis High Power with the wooden shoulder stock.The stock and the sights are oddities that we should not with hindsight critic .:nono:

The book says the Chinese were accustomed to the German Broomhandle.So they ordered what they knew.A better pistol , in a better caliber, with higher capacity magazine ..with a shoulder stock. But a sight that elevates to 600 meters ? Go figure ? :madsmile:

Thanks for your interest in this most interesting handgun with a very good and long service period.

Major Bob


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i dont have that chinese holster but i have all of the others you show in your photos in my collection , no the stickers are gone from both my original finish no2 mkI* and my refinished no1 mkI* , im not looking for the stickers as that would be adding back what is legitamatly gone in my mind

Thanks A Square. High Power Canadian holsters From Right to left: Pattern 37, Chinese contract Pattern 37 but also used by Canadian forces in WW2 and Korea according to photographic evidence , Pattern 51 and finally Pattern 64. With the ''Chinese'' contract stock that is also a holster , that makes five . I have also three ( 3) more : 82 Pattern, 2000's Pattern ( a Bianchi holster similar to the US one for the M9 ) and a shoulder holster . If there is interest i will post pictures. In all that makes 8 different holsters for a pistol that has been in service for 67 years ! I have worn in the service in successive order : Patt 64, Patt 82, retired 2000's , tac vest and shoulder holster . Maybe a buddy who has been to Afghanistan could tell us how they wore their Inglis High Power ? It was issued to all ranks in that conflict .Thanks. Major Bob

Now they wear leg rigs or waist rigs from private purchase. There IS a web shoulder holster on issue with mag pouches on the other side but it's not a shade of Bianchi or Safariland. For a time they were issuing the Bianchi green flap holster and mag pouches like the US issue for the M9. We never had mag pouches and this was a great improvement. It's common for the troops to buy Blackhawk or Bianchi or any of the other current market rigs.

We just wear '58 pattern holsters on the waist belt with landyard around the neck or waist. Nothing fancy................. I always keep in the back of my mind and tell them in as many words that A PISTOL IS THE LAST MEANS OF MECHANICAL DEFIANCE AVAILABLE TO A SOLDIER, (except for a bayonet of course). Always remember and treat it as just that and no more!

Well said Peter. A last means of defense but pretty usefull at close quarters when all else has failed. A pistol and a grenade will do wonders in any conflict . Now that carbines ( C-8, C-7A1 ) are so short , they have pretty much replaced pistols for close quarter combat. Still , it is a nice backup when working in a command post or when going to the latrines....

Regards.

Major Bob

major bob , i will ask this reralising that its somewhat rehtorical , but what in this day and age of disarmament is left to be that 'last measure of defence' ?

"...Well said Peter. A last means of defense but pretty usefull at close quarters when all else has failed..."

it seems to me that the 'modern government' has taken its que from the commies and nazis of the past - disarm the public and controle them , not to start a huge political discussion , but just to push the button on a reality check , there is very little left a common man can rely on ,

Just taking one bit of your comment A square............I think that there is still one thing that the common man can ALWAYS rely on, and that's a Browning 9mm pistol. Brilliant bits of kit!

:thup: A-Square 10 my friend, my comments concerned the use of arms in an armed conflict ( overseas ) as i am a military person. In the vast , democratic , free and relatively violent crime free society that i live in just north of your own beautifull , democratic and vast one , i have never felt it nessessary to carry firearms either long nor short for defensive purposes. It is true that i live in a relatively small city of less than 500,000 but the comment is fair from coast to coast except maybe in very large urban areas . But if i felt threatened in any way or fashion , the Inglis High Power would do the job quite nicely. I sincerely hope your neighbourhood has not developped into a combat zone.Just a friendly and neighbourly comment. Regards. Major Bob :rolleyes:

If I had to rely on a revolver A square and Major Bob, I'd use an old .38" No2 Enfield too, simply because like the Browning No2 and our L9's, I've been brought up on them, know them inside out and know them like old trusty and reliable friends. Call it a sixth sense, but I just trust them

I wish we could get the Inglis Browning made into a regular section of the Cdn. Military Surplus Knowlege Library. We have the contributors available to do that with photographs and text. I am on the hunt for a good Inglis MkII to add to my small Cdn. small arms collection. Unfortunately, it seem that the Govt. won't be making any available to the public when they finally convert to a new pistol. Like the Red Rose Tea commercial: "only in Canada you say, pity!

Since it's show and tell, here is half of mine, holster/stock around somewhere.

It's a welded blank used in the Long Branch Woodshop...

Attachment 30544 Attachment 30545 Attachment 30543

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Originally Posted by Bullseye4mkI*

Since it's show and tell, here is half of mine, holster/stock around somewhere.

It's a welded blank used in the Long Branch Woodshop...

Attachment 30544 Attachment 30545 Attachment 30543

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That's cool, a salvaged frame & slide, quite possibly from damage during testing turned into a useful tool.

Also if you search the picture thread: Inglis Browning High Power photo - mrclark photos at pbase.com
You probably see a contemporary photo of your toy...:)

"Female worker Madeline Solotwinski checks the wooden holster/emergency butt on a Chinese pistol, converting it into a sub-machine gun; Small Arms Ltd. plant"

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Originally Posted by Bullseye4mkI*

It's a welded blank used in the Long Branch Woodshop...

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That is a very neat piece Bullseye...I'd love to know where you tripped over it?

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Originally Posted by Lee Enfield

Also if you search the picture thread: Inglis Browning High Power photo - mrclark photos at pbase.com
You probably see a contemporary photo of your toy...

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Wow..... I would love to see the numbers on that shell... I think you just pulled up a picture of my actual piece?!

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

That is a very neat piece Bullseye...I'd love to know where you tripped over it?

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My Grandfather worked at LB, and when the Inglis/Browning contract was over, brought it home for my dad...
I'll try and find out the date.

Bullseye, I wish I had access to that pstol when I was writing Inglis Diamond. It is very possible that your pstol is the exact pistol show in the hands of the factory worker. I will dig out my 8x10 print and see if I can make out a number.
As to the many other comments on this thread, I suggest you read through the book as many misconceptions wil be clarified there.
Cheers,
Clive

Wonderful discussion! I was issued a mint condition pistol with sticker, on arrival at 4 Svc Bn, Lahr Germany in 1971. Fired about 100 rounds in 3 years. Was reluctantly returned to stores in very, very nice condition. Now own lovely T serial and have three different holsters. There was a time ( about 1980) when there was some concern about broken barrel lugs on a very small number of high milage units.