A different chapter for No.5s (Jungle carbines) that I knew nothing about.

In 1943, trials began on a shortened and lightened No. 4 rifle, leading to the adoption in 1944 of the No. 5 Mk I Rifle, or “Jungle Carbine,” as it is commonly known. The No. 5 rifle was manufactured by ROF-Fazakerley and by BSA-Shirley from 1944 until 1947.

I just found this reference on the Internet.????(True or not)

"The No. 5 was first issued to the British 6th Airborne Division and in use during their occupation of Denmark in 1945."

This might tie into the first photo below showing the British 1st Airborne Division in Oslo Norway. (Carrying No.5s)

I had no idea that there might be a Norwegian or Danish connection for these rifles.


In May 1945 after Germany had surrendered in Europe (May 8th 1945) elements of the 1st British Airborne division were sent to NORWAY to disarm the 350,000 strong German garrison there as well as a brigade being sent to DENMARK.
There were no hostile military actions during this exercise.


Photo two shows a Norwegian girl obtaining autographs from men of the 1st Airborne landing brigade.
A No.5 Lee Enfield (Jungle Carbine) is seen in this photo.

David

The 1st Airborne Division never fully recovered from their losses at Arnhem. Just after the end of the war, the depleted formation took part in Operation Doomsday in Norway. They were tasked with the disarmament and repatriation of the German occupation army. The division then returned to England and was disbanded in November 1945.

In Operation Doomsday, the British 1st Airborne Division acted as a police and military force during the Allied occupation of Norway in May 1945, immediately after the victory in Europe during the Second World War. The division maintained law and order until the arrival of the remainder of Force 134, the occupation force. During its time in Norway, the division was tasked with supervising the surrender of the German forces in Norway, as well as preventing the sabotage of vital military and civilian facilities.

The German Instrument of Surrender was delivered on 8 May to General Franz Böhme, the commander of all German forces stationed in Norway, and the 1st Airborne Division landed near Oslo and Stavanger between 9 May and 11 May. The majority of the transport aircraft carrying the division landed safely, but one crash caused a number of fatalities. The division encountered little of the expected German resistance. Operational duties included welcoming back King Haakon VII of Norway, looking after Allied ex-prisoners of war, arresting war criminals and supervising the clearing of minefields.


David

A fellow from Norway responded on another forum with this photo.

Trooper with Jungle Carbine in Egersund, Norway, May 1945.
Photo: Osvald Nielsen, Dalane Folkemuseum.

David

Very interesting and personally would be happy if I owned all the bayonets shown in the first picture. Of course would only trickle them onto the market so I didn't devalue them.

Has anyone ever figured out why they have that narrow rubber butt pad? It flies in the face of all logic about recoil effects, which were well known and worked around with quite wide butt plates on some rifles, it makes no sense at all? I've fired them with brand new original rubber too, there's very little extra cushioning power there just because its new rubber.

More to do with keeping the rubber on there, I'd assume, with the surround.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RJW NZ

Has anyone ever figured out why they have that narrow rubber butt pad? It flies in the face of all logic about recoil effects, which were well known and worked around with quite wide butt plates on some rifles, it makes no sense at all? I've fired them with brand new original rubber too, there's very little extra cushioning power there just because its new rubber.

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I've read that the pad was to keep rifle butts from slipping on and/or damaging the floors of transport aircraft. No idea if it's actually true, but it does offer a reasonable explanation for the rubber pad.

And why is the sling attached on the right? Maybe it´s to ensure that the poor sod with the rifle gets the bolt handle in the small of his back which is sure to keep him in an upright position at all times. Or maybe to prevent the sling from being used, as it might improve taking aim?

HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THIS PIC OF A P44 WEB EQUIPPED SOLDIER WITH THE NO.5 HELD TO THE BELT BY A LARGE WEB LOOP AROUND THE CARBINE'S WRIST?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../p44loop-1.jpg

It's hard to imagine a war being fought with ANYTHING packed in a wicker basket (reference the second picture of the radioman on the rear of the transport). That was a truly different time.

May not have been all that friendly a crowd since his No. 5 is loaded, judging from the striker position.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by conec

HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THIS PIC OF A P44 WEB EQUIPPED SOLDIER WITH THE NO.5 HELD TO THE BELT BY A LARGE WEB LOOP AROUND THE CARBINE'S WRIST

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Not only seen but I have at least one complete set of '44 Patt. I'll post a pic of a belt c/w loop, later. (Off to the Trafalgar.)

That was the sole purpose of the press-stud loop attached to the 44 pattern belt and no, it wasn't for your first aid/field dressing. We simply used to wrap the loop around the belt and attach the press stud together, keeping it tight. The loop wouldn't prevent the muzzle end of the sling dropping off the shoulder so in effect, the loop served no purpose whatsoever. In any case, in the tropics you soon/very quickly learned to keep your rifle slung, muzzle down. Muzzle up was the thing of text books and fairy stories