Is anyone running a Rifle Repository in the UK?.

I've recently seen several Lee Enfield rifles advertised and frustratingly some already sold which would have been nice to get hold of for interests sake, but with the limit of FAC slot's I wondered if someone out there might be running a business whereby they stored rifles, possibly stripped to pressure bearing parts, for individuals to obtain on an ongoing basis by one to one firearms certificate variations, thus providing a way of collecting within the climate of current legislative restrictions.
A sort of Lee Enfield Banking system(Oh no!) from whence you could get your valuables out and handle them in different denominations before re-depositing them.
Sorry this is UK only again!.

Many gun shops and RFDs will hold and store firearms for a fee, but it can be quite expensive.

Unfortunately, Police-imposed restrictions on numbers of stored firearms can make it difficult/inconvenient for RFDs to hold firearms even as a favour for someone. Many RFDs also have to limit the number of firearms they sell on deposit - because it can take months for FAC holders to finally collect the firearm.

Do you really want to buy rifles, and then never see them or shoot them? i find it bad enough owning a collection at home but having them locked away in cabinets out of sight. Perhaps you should ask your police for 30x variations on the basis that you wish to build a collection? Depending upon how anti-gun your police force is, you may be allowed to keep a collection but not be allowed to shoot any of them, or you may be allowed to keep 7 shoot a collection.

Thanks for the response, Thunderbox. I had actually just drafted a long letter to my Firearms department following a long telephone conversation, asking for 28 slots to include 6 modern, 6 collectables for regular shooting which would double for modern TR, McQueen etc. and 14 collectables which I was under the impression could be used on occasion for test and demonstration purposes. I simply don't see the logic behind the legislation with regard to restricting the use of the collectables, although I do understand concern about security and large collections of shootables.
I agree that 30 would be about right but I already have a feeling I should cut it down significantly, especially as a beginner.
I have a friend who is holding a couple of rifles for me already but I don't like to take advantage, and I did not realise that he might also be restricted.
And yes, it is very frustrating not being able to get hold of them but it's better than giving up.
I actually think that the only way to be a true "Collector" would be to register as a RFD which I suppose is a bit like having your own "Bank" of rifles for deposit and withdrawals as nescessary.
Thanks again.
jss

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Originally Posted by jss

I've recently seen several Lee Enfield rifles advertised and frustratingly some already sold which would have been nice to get hold of for interests sake, but with the limit of FAC slot's

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I guess my first question would be what limit? There is no limit in law. I know that some (many?) constabularies try to impose their own limits but in fact they have no right to do so. Those most restrictive constabularies tend to rely on the "Public Safety" card by imposing onerous security requirements. I suggest that you take read of “Firearms Security Handbook” published in 2005. Here's a quote from it: "is not enough to base an assessment on the number of firearms alone".

BTW, as a collector, you do need to show bona fides and I wholeheartedly agree with that requirement.

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Originally Posted by Beerhunter

BTW, as a collector, you do need to show bona fides and I wholeheartedly agree with that requirement.

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Beerhunter - Thanks for the input. "bona fides" - Yes, I agree and on examining the wording in the legislation this is the difficult one. With 30 years or so shooting and collecting behind me I might convince myself that I am a genuine collector, but as a beginner with little knowledge or experience am I perhaps using the collecting aspect to attain many firearms just for the sake of it?. But if that were the case, why would I be looking at all the reloading data, wasting hundreds of hours of my time reading this forum, spending thousands of pounds that I can never re-coup on training, memberships and lumps of scrap iron and wood.
The easy option would be to give up the fight, get a few modern rifles and pistols and forget about collecting. But I enjoy it, I love the rifles, I enjoy this forum without which I doubt I would ever have embarked upon collecting and I have found this the most absorbing hobby I have ever had.
But ONLY for one year so far!.
So is that "bona fides"?. I just don't know. Am I a collector?. I just don't know.
How does one know if they are a collector???.

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Originally Posted by jss

I just don't know. Am I a collector?. I just don't know.
How does one know if they are a collector???.

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You dont, it just creeps up on you, the difference between the collector, and the "shooter and hoarder", is the collector usually has a large amout of info and a well stocked libary on the subject (knowledge is power), is a member of the HBSA or similar etc, and has a healthy bank balance.

I have a few collectable rifles, but it stops there, (more of a hoarder than anything else and most of my hoard are on deaths row) as TB points out having a nice collection is one thing but having them all locked up out of sight is another, unless you build yourself a gun room, with a viewing area !

A lot depends on what time frame and what area you want to concentrate on, a few Martini Henrys is a good start to an Enfield collection, or even start at the end of the crimea with the P1853 rifle, then a Snider etc plus these you dont need to lock up out of sight, are you collecting the accessories to go with the rifles also?

Having a 30 rifles is one thing but a display like this always catches my eye

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...derbitsR-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ldbitsR1-1.jpg

I totally agree with the rfd or in Australia, dealers licence. That way you can trade, import , export and really do all thee things you need or want too.

Just wondering, but if you went down the 'Registered Firearms Dealer' route, in order to build a collection, would you not have to be seen to be actually 'dealing' - is there a minimum number of 'sales' or transactions that you would have to demonstrate annually to have 'good reason' to be a 'dealer'?

As has been mentioned before, 'security' is normally an issue and becoming a RFD would probably require a rather more enhanced level of security (although I haven't studied that 2005 booklet lately). An intruder alarm is my next hurdle, to grow my collection beyond 12 firearms.

You can own a lot of the older stuff such as the 3 band enfield and snider conversion pictured above completely off ticket as long as you dont shoot them. You can even have the ammo as long as its rendered inert.
Back in 1984 in concert with a gentleman called Tony Dudmann I pioneered the issuing of the first blank firing only section 1 FAC's for re-enactment use by recognised re-enactment societies - in our case it was with Sussex Police HQ in Lewes - surprisingly they will listen if you put forward a reasonable case, those few faltering steps soon spread far and wide across England, sure we heard of several Police authorities trying to add their own additional restrictions - the most stupid and dangerous was that requirement for a non removeable restrictor to be placed at the muzzle by Birmingham Police authority, this immoveable plug would hamper cleaning and could eventually block up completely with debris causing the rifle to explode, eventually the Police dropped the requirement when they realised how dangerous it was.
Recently I have noted a relaxing of the attitude toward theatrical use blank firing FAC's a couple of people I know even being granted section 5 FAC's for the theatrical use of fully auto and semi auto weapons. I guess what Im trying to say is - it never hurts to ask, you might be pleasantly surprised.
Cheers
Chris C

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Originally Posted by Gingercat

Just wondering, but if you went down the 'Registered Firearms Dealer' route, in order to build a collection

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Collecting is one thing you wont get an RFD for, it is for trade and not collecting and covers all aspects of the trade, and in the business plan submitted with an application it gives the issuing force an idea of the area you will trade in.

security is the main issue as you say, again it all depends on what area of buisness you are in, I,m on the repair/ restoration and building side of things, and use my RFD as part of an engineering business. My storage is limited, but dont have any stipulation on my certificate regarding this, but its down to common sense, and trust, trust being the main part of the RFD.

I am constantly amazed that the police think Sniders and martini's are the first choice of criminals

They'd rather nobody had access to any guns of any description, old or current, working or mutilated. Foe them there is absolutely no downside to a blanket ban, it can't possibly do them any harm, and it might just do them a bit of good.

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Originally Posted by John Sukey

I am constantly amazed that the police think Sniders and martini's are the first choice of criminals

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Think you may have your wires crossed there John, Martini,s and Sniders come under section 58, so don't need a Licence for collecting or ornamental use etc.
Just trying to give a few pointers to Jss on starting in the collecting field, If you have a good library and plenty of antique stuff such as the Martini etc., then it may help tip the balance to get the required slots on his ticket.

I have heard recently that a case was thrown out of court regarding someone who had an antique firearm in there possession ( was on display ) it was well over a hundred years old , but not on the obsolete calibre list, but the judge ruled on the word antique so the case dismissed, could be a lot more to that story but that was the basics I heard.

On the subject of obsolete calibres, there are a few who don't know that the .276" P13 can be held with no ticket, only snag here is the last one I know that was on the market was around £9000 only about £ 8900 over my budget.