Safe Queen or Shooter: What to Do with a Collector Grade M1 Garand

Since starting to talk about my M1 Garand, CMP Collector Grade, which from all appearances appears to have come right out of the armory last week, several people have asked me if I'm going to shoot it, or treat it as a safe queen. These queries have caused me now to rethink my plan to use it as a shooter. I'll put in the video of it at the end here to remind you what I'm talking about.

Should I leave it as a safe queen and not use it?

I suppose a true collector of Garands may not ever shoot, choosing instead to leave it in this nearly mint condition.

Safe Queen or Shooter?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FatnDZdkrlc&hd=1

What are your thoughts on this? Thanks guys.

Amsdorf you really started some fires as well as stirred the pot yesterday with some posts. Now let me put you on the hot seat you seem to enjoy others on. The rifle you are displaying is a fine rifle and you say it's a Collector Grade issued by CMP. I would think that anyone who can not only afford but be wise enough to decide to buy such a rifle that this would not be your first one. Your questions are such that I would assume you have little knowledge regarding it's value and history in the condition it was sold by CMP with that certificate.

Hence, what's your point. I know what I'd do and I wouldn't be on three different or more forums asking for opinions, I'd do what I want and maybe PM a trusted senior advisor. I would also have an expert detail strip that rifle and identify that it indeed meets the CMP Collector Grade status. When that rifle left CMP I would trust it was as documented, how sure are you if it was not locked in your possession 100% of the time since? I'll ask you to make up your own mind on this one.

Sarge, since you felt a need to post these basically irrelevant remarks on this thread, I'll just say this. I publicly challenged slander posted on another forum about the Civilian Marksmanship Program and got that all out in the open and the head of the CMP was able to respond to it, quite vigorously and publicly. The person who printed the libel on the other forum withdrew it and has now since deleted it. While you may feel fine sitting on the sidelines when a fine organization and the fine people associated with it are libeled and slandered as was the case yesterday, I do not. It is a good thing that the other forum deleted the remarks and the "senior moderator" there who made them publicly retracted and apologized for them. The remarks posted were such that the forum and its owner(s) could have been sued back into the stone age by the Civilian Marksmanship Program, so serious were they.

The rifle shown here has been detailed stripped and every part identified, labelled and documented. It is what the CMP says it is, and I have the paperwork to prove it and I have eyeballed it myself as well and done my research with the resources available to do it.

If you have something helpful to contribute to this particular topic and conversation, I welcome your opinions. Otherwise it appears only your intention to take a rather gratuitous cheap shot for reasons known only to you.

I recently bought a Special Grade M1 Garand at the CMP outlet. the receiver was made in 1955. Using the info in the book "The M1 Garand 1936-1957" by Joe Poyer andCraig Riesch, it appears that the receiver, barrel, and trigger assembly are correct to 1955. The stock is a CMP new stock and I refinished it with 3 hand rubbed coats of Tung Oil. The muzzle gauged under 1 and it appears that the rifle was test fired.

I have shot it and it shoots under 1" groups at 50 yds. I intend to take it to the range some, but I do not intend to overdo it.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...and16562-1.jpg

Nice looking rifle!!

:super:

I have bought several CMP service grade 5.8 mil M-1s and they where almost perfect like yours Though you could tell they had had slight use. A couple looked metal wise brand new with all the parts matched but the stock was replaced with a CMP birch?? stock. Your stock like new is dry as it would be and I suppose some are ruined that way so CMP replaces them.
Can anyone tell me why the cartouche is not present on the left side of the stock or is it my eyes? Nice rifle!!

Thanks, the cartouche is just there, just not very deeply stamped. I'll be getting better pictures of it with better light very soon.

No reason to pay a premium for a collector grade rifle if you are going to use it as a shooter. Plenty of shooter garands around for that.

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Originally Posted by mpd1978

No reason to pay a premium for a collector grade rifle if you are going to use it as a shooter. Plenty of shooter garands around for that.

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Amen to that! Does a stamp collector mail a letter with his 1924 Airmail? Probably not.

I have to agree this is a question that answers itself and scarcely needs to be asked. Methinks the OP protesteth a little too much. Lighten up a little. I do not see anyone in this forum slandering anybody - lest of all the CMP. Most of us are members and do business with them.

The answer is simple enough. You don't shoot perfect, collector grade guns - unless you just like lighting $100 bills for fun and destroying an important piece of history perfectly representitive of "how it really was". Original is only original once, and brand new is ony new until the first round. Future collectors will curse those who fail to respect the custodial nature of our hobby. "Indy, we are only passing through history. This IS History!" (from the first Indiana Jones movie.)

It is indeed a beautiful rifle that anyone here would be proud to own. Thanks for the excellent video. If you do indeed want a shooter, they run $650-700.00. Sell this one and spend the remaining money on a nice shooter and ammo, spotting scope, etc. And if you merely want to share a very nice M1 with us, always just do it, it is very much appreciated, and you did a great job on the video. But let's work hard to all remain civil. "A soft answer turneth away wrath...." CC

I´ll never would shoot it. I would be happy to own it and would oil it and prepare the wood and i would have a look at it from time to time. Great rifle!

Hello,https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/M1s085-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/M1s086-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/M1s092-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/M1s091-1.jpgthe first pic is 3 service grades that I could almost say are collector grade. Obviously the bottom rifle has been given a replacement stock but the metal on all 3 of these is perfect. the 2 rifle shot is perfect metal with light birch stocks. Some of the rifles in the mas shot are WWII rifles with mixed parts and 50's stocks and some mismatch wood.

....and i´m looking since years for a more or less good one!

Recieved good news, a elderly shooter wants to sell his guns and he has a Garand. Don´t know which maker but i´m looking forward to meet him. Sorry for hijacking the thread, but has one of you guys a few advices on what i have to look at?

Thanks in advance

I think you inspected enough service rifles in your time, it's the same...It's not like you have a great deal of choice where you are?

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I think you inspected enough service rifles in your time, it's the same...It's not like you have a great deal of choice where you are?

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Thats correct, Jim!

The problem is that you can get really good ones for horrific prices, somewhere between 700Euros to 1000Euros, or you can get some bad ones. And bad ones are worn out ones. What i meant is there a series of rifles or a maker which is known for lower quality? Years ago i had a chance to get a original snipers version, all numbers matching including the scope, but i lost it to a guy who was only a few minutes faster than i. The price was great and the rifle too. A elderly man sold it, because it won´t fit right into his collection of some hundreds of K98 rifles. And he sold it for around $1400! Bad luck

Easy answer there Ulrich, no bad makers. Not a pig in the bunch. It just depends on what you're looking for (if you had a choice of several). I'm sure you NEED a good shooter to begin with. Correct parts list for originality would be a distant second. The actual manufacturer would come after those. Remember, a dark barrel CAN shoot passibly and a shiney one's sometimes shot out. (like an old MG3 barrel)

Thanks for your advice, Jim! I´ll post it if i´m able to get it.

Just wanted to report back and let everyone know I've decided to shoot it, in fact, I did today, for the first time. VERY accurate, everything is so nice and tight. I was able to put an eight round group into a 8 inch paper plate at 100 yards, holding it at my shoulder and resting the front stock on a small bean bag on top of a 30 cal ammo bag. I managed a fairly good group, which I was pretty pleased with since I do have fifty year old eyes and this was the first time I shot a Garand. I'm looking forward to seeing what I can do with it on my lead sled, which I didn't have with me today. I figured, what the heck, life is too short not to enjoy something meant to be used, so...there you go.

Thanks for all the good advice.

I am currently shooting a SA Service Grade Special. The only thing it needed to be a collector grade was a GI stock and stock metal.

I used 5" stick on targets at 50 yds and 8" stick on targets at 100 and 200 yds. These big black circles sit right on top of the post and you can get some good groups.

I have since put an Ultimak scout mount on with 2x7 Burris EER on this rifle. With the scope I was able to see groups shrink as the 1955 BBL break in. With good handloads I am getting 1" to 1.5" groups at 100 yds. I think you did the right thing to shoot the rifle, enjoy it while you can.

Shooting these new or almost new rifles is great fun. I am going to get a deer with mine this year.

It's always hard to say. I shoot everything I get on a matter of principle, which is why I don't buy safe queens, but will shoot If I get. Always a personal preference.

Personally there are plenty of "shooter" grade rifles and I would never shoot a "collector" as there is simply no point to it.

I would hasten to add I have two collectors I purchased from CMP several years ago and more than a dozen "corrects," none of which will I ever fire.

I have many Garands for shooting, well tuned and with new barrels for shooting. No sense in ruining a piece of accurate and correct history except to reduce the value of the piece as it related to others of its kind.

I always liken shooting a new and correct historical rifle to the man who found a valuable antique auto stashed in a barn and, having purchased it for less than market value, decided to use it for a daily driver. Needless to say, the miles, rock chips, worn upholstery and faded paint soon reduced his antique to the status of a well-worn taxicab. He had failed to predict the results of his own shortsightedness.

Do as you like, but rest assured that your piece is no longer a true "collector" to those knowledgeable enough to recognized op rod wear, follower wear or who possess the tools to check a barrel for erosion. If I were to price your piece, I would downgrade it accordingly in price for the wear.

Do what you want with your piece, but shooting an otherwise pristine example is simply making it worth less and the others which aren't shot worth all the more.

Thanks for your opinion, which represents well the "collect and do not shoot" view on all this. Appreciate it. You have chosen to invest a very sizable amount of money in collecting Garands, and I can respect that choice.

Just don't get the point in shooting a collector grade unless you like degraging the value of a weapon that is no longer made. Keep chucking rounds down the tube and putting wear and tear on the parts and your collector grade will be a correct grade real quick. I believe read you say that the money doesn't matter to you in one of the many forums you asked this question in and that's fine because it's your rifle. I have owned many collector grade/proof fired only/unissued US military martial arms and I have always seen myself as a caretaker of something that needs to be preserved. Let's face it............they aren't making these things anymore. I don't fire my collector pieces not because of a money issue but out of respect for future collectors.

it's an expensive rifle so let it be that. Put it in its place of glory on the rack and let it be. im not going to stop you from shooting it. i would shoot a field grade but a collector grade is an investment to your collection. Worth a lot of money and it should stay so

Amsdorf, reading all this, what strikes me is how hot under the collar collectors can get! I understand the various points of view, but over here we just can't afford it. The regulations mean that if you are a registered collector and prepared to spend a lot of money to turn part of your house into a law-enforcement approved (and inspected!) arsenal then OK, you obviously have the money to buy what you like. But if, like Gunner and myself, you are just a PBI-shooter competing in the market with serious collectors, then the only thing you want is not "collector" grade or "correct "grade or anything else based on numbers and looks, but "bloody accurate" grade.

I have a couple of rifles that could be described as "arsenal mint". By which I mean, they were all-correct in the parts configuration and effectively as-new on the inside, but with plenty of dings from being shunted around for a century or so. Putting on the "collector" hat, this rifle seems to be one of them. If it shoots well, use it. But I would not waste a minute on doing anything more than linseed-oiling the wood, an action which is not altering the rifle, just a matter of maintenance and conservation. Any attempt to optically improve the shaft is damaging to the collector value and a waste of time for the shooting value. So I think you did the right thing by merely oiling it.

BTW, if you dismantle the rifle, get rid of the cosmoline or whatever it is and linseed oil the wood on the inside as well, to maintain an even moisture level thoughout AND to put the brakes on any mineral oil or grease soaking into and eventually through the stock.

And, young sir, 50-year old eyeballs are NOT an excuse! Look for better than 3" groups off a sandbag at 100 yards with most shots being inside 2".

Good shooting, and enjoy it!

:wave:
Patrick

Thank you for the advice, Patrick

This ain't no "stinkin' safe queen". The last time it was shot was when I made this picture, and previous to that was when Chip Walker and Billy Pyle came by to shoot pictures of it. The keystone springs were not stressed in any way during either shoot.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../35l674o-1.jpg