Mystery No4 MkI.

Picked up a No 4 today that kind of has me baffled. The electro pencilling claims it is a Fazackerly manufactured rifle made in June of '43, but the pencilling looks, well, funny. The markings on the receiver and bolt are nothing that Ive ever seen before. There is an F R and what looks like a little boat or anchor above it. I am stumped on this one. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!Attachment 27702Attachment 27701Attachment 27700Attachment 27699Attachment 27698Attachment 27697Attachment 27696Attachment 27695Attachment 27694

Ok, have discovered that the odd mark on the receiver and bolt handle are London proof marks, I believe the FR is probably Factory Repair. But still wondering about the little 'boat' above it, if that is in fact what it is. Electro pencil number on bolt matches number on butt socket, although yo can barely see it in the photo. Puzzled by the other number under bolt handle.

The electro pencil looks normal for a rifle of this time period.

The "28" under the bolt handle may be the inspector's number of the person who placed the crossed pennants adjacent.

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All of the photos of the above rifle are linked above.

Ooh! Welded charger bridge on yours as well! As you have an "A" suffix rifle, I need to cross link it to my old thread. It may be a while, as this computer is not well equipped to do anything but basic stuff. Can't even thank you for the photos (except by typing it out like this...)

Jmoore, what's the significance of a welded charger bridge? I'm mainly into MkIII's, and have not owned a great deal of No 4s. Any ideas as to the 4s stamped all over the receiver? This rifle has a DC prefix, but darned if I can see the A suffix you are seeing, your eyes are obviously better than mine! Another interesting note, the mag has an SMC marked follower, Singer obviously, but have only seen that mark on peddle schemes. Not that someone couldn't have put that in as a replacement. Rather glossy black paint on it, with olive drab paint below it. Thanks for looking!

These are just well-used Fazakerleys that were part of the huge surplus stocks in UK in the 50s-70s.

Re: many threads on the "FR" subject: my own personal theory is that "FR" is the mark of a UK surplus agent that bought in large numbers of rifles and spares on behalf of Pakistan - it might even be the mark of a Pakistan buying commission. Lots of these rifles evidently never left UK, and seem to have ended up on the US and UK civilian markets. Most of the rifles appear to be Savages, or have been restocked with savage wood.

I expect that the electro-pencil marks under the bolts were done at the time these rifles were checked by whoever/whatever "FR" was.

My Fazackery isn't hardly used at all! Electro pencil marks are still in the white.
Wood may have been scrubbed, but It was likely done after arrival in the US.

Anzac 15, your serial number definitely ends with an "A". It shows well in the photo with the safety in the center of the shot(when enlarged at any rate).
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Link to the controversial "A" suffix thread:

"...actively sought out and destroyed..." 'A' Suffix No.4 Rifles

Thunderbox, interesting about the FR! Now if I can just figure out what the little 'boat' or whatever it is, is. Jmoore, I saw the A suffix right after I read your post, it's very faint, but it's there alright. I understand that meant that the rifle was fitted with 'nonstandard' parts, or something along those lines? Also, you mentioned the welded charger bridge..is that a good feature? Rare?
That's why I love these things, history in your hands!

I think your "little boat" mark is just a scar in the wood thats been filled. In fact it looks like the impression of a screw head from when the rifles were probably stacked on a pallet at some stage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anzac15

Jmoore, what's the significance of a welded charger bridge?

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On any other No.4, it's mostly likely a repair. But Fazackerly seems to have make it a production shortcut. If it has no faint outlines of a dowel pin on the top extremities of the charger bridge, then it was likely made that way. My theory is that's a reason many Wartime Fazackerlys have the "A", because that's not a standard feature, otherwise. The hunt now is to find a WWII vintage Fazackerly with either a "factory" welded bridge but no "A", or an "A" suffix rifle without the welded at manufacture bridge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anzac15

Any ideas as to the 4s stamped all over the receiver?

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Nope!

Ha, ha! I swear, it looks like someone at Fazackerly got really bored and just started stamping 4s all over it!

Looking at the abysmal sanding of the butt as typified at the heel of photo 9, probably done by a butcher on a a sanding belt, I'd bet that it was done at some factory in Asia - probably Pakistan! Then hurriedly coated with the usual coats of cover-all varnish. Yep, that says the Indian sub continent somewhere to me!

So far as the charger bridges go, we used to lever the bridge with a bar of steel (usually the stockbolt screwdriver if I remember correctly.........) and the faintest oil squeeze around the edge would consign the rifle to one side where a small hole would be drilled into each side, between the body and the 'loose' bridge. EXACTLY as shown in JM's photo. It'd be countersunk and then arc welded across. Lightly made off with the linishing wheel, it'd continue on its path through the workshop process. This process always showed through the phosphate process but would be covered by the paint. Done zillions of them!

Re: The 4's it looks like the person was having trouble with his stamp. Look closely at the one on the right. There's four strikes in a row. May have been a worn stamp?
Re: FR. I have two no.4's with this stamp. One is a 1941 Maltby and one is a 1943 LB MkI* both have MkIII back sights.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Looking at the abysmal sanding of the butt as typified at the heel of photo 9, probably done by a butcher on a a sanding belt, I'd bet that it was done at some factory in Asia - probably Pakistan! Then hurriedly coated with the usual coats of cover-all varnish. Yep, that says the Indian sub continent somewhere to me!!

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Or Bubbaville. So it's not pretty. At least all the parts are still trere. Anymore, that's a big bonus.:surrender:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

So far as the charger bridges go, we used to lever the bridge with a bar of steel (usually the stockbolt screwdriver if I remember correctly.........) and the faintest oil squeeze around the edge would consign the rifle to one side where a small hole would be drilled into each side, between the body and the 'loose' bridge. EXACTLY as shown in JM's photo. It'd be countersunk and then arc welded across. Lightly made off with the linishing wheel, it'd continue on its path through the workshop process. This process always showed through the phosphate process but would be covered by the paint. Done zillions of them!

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Hence the note to look for the original (if any) retaining pins. Which can be almost invisible as Peter Laidler has mentioned a few times previously.... A good detail shot of the top of the charger bridge would be most welcome, Anzac15 !

I will try to get some up this afternoon.
So, a possible Indian/Pakistani restock? No Ishy screw. I understand that India loved to scrub rifles of all markings to 'make them their own', but would they not have scrubbed the electro pencilled Faz marking as well? Rifle appears to be an original Mk 1 all around, with the possible exeption of the woodwork.

Interesting theory on eth A. i just checked the pic in my Reno gun show thread of the A suffix Faz No.4 Mk 1 and sure enough, welded charger bridge.

Bridge charger guides again. If it comes out, they were never a spare componemt part (oh no they weren't. A part NUMBER doesn't indicate an AVAILABLE part as I always say.....) and the rifle is scrap. So weld it in place from the word go and it's there for good

Seems they let the engraver ladies train on the job, rather than on a piece of scrap metal first.

Pity.