De Lisle type rifle/carbine - help needed with identification

A fellow shooter came across this and, knowing I was interested in Enfields, sent me some pics.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF0304-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF0309-1.jpg

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An interesting conversion. It seems to be based on the WW2 De Lisle carbines. It's a Savage No.4 re-chambered for .45ACP, a moderator screws on the front. Empty .45 cases are dropped into the .303 magazine. It shoots fairly well, considering the ammo it uses.

Has anyone seen a similar conversion or know anything about it's history?

Thanks.

It's about as completely un-DeLisle like as possible without having trouble seeing the tie-in! No.4 action, vs. a No.1; detatchable can; 1911 mag at the front of the .303 housing, versus no .303 mag housing and the pistol mag at the rear; Optics, vs, iron sights; remnants of the original forestock still intact past the receiver body, etc.

But it ought to be a fun Walter Mitty weapon!

There's a company called Valkyrie(a woman I'm told) in the US that will produce such a thing for actual money. I could be out of date on this, she may have quit. In Canada we've seen some ads for a replica that won't quiet anything down but sure looks cool. #4 actions seem to be the rage because of availability I think. Wait til Peter get's a load of this one... By the way, I think it's an exellent design. It's probably only about as loud as a popcorn fart.

There are a few others who produce the conversion kit, one is Rhineland arms who do them for the mauser (just a plain .45 barrel with a locking ring similar to the savage) and the mag adapter, I,ve built a few on No4 actions, good fun to shoot etc, only thing I have against them is when they are called De-Lisle replica,s etc.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

There's a company called Valkyrie(a woman I'm told) in the US that will produce such a thing for actual money. I could be out of date on this, she may have quit. In Canada we've seen some ads for a replica that won't quiet anything down but sure looks cool. #4 actions seem to be the rage because of availability I think. Wait til Peter get's a load of this one... By the way, I think it's an exellent design. It's probably only about as loud as a popcorn fart.

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No longer made, unless it's recently brought back. Quality was not outstanding...too bad, too! It looked good from 10 feet...

Many thanks, especially to jmoore for his helpful comments.

As I explained to the shooter who brought it to my attention, the differences between the gun I posted and the real De Lisle carbine are quite apparent, but I was trying to describe the basic concept of an Enfield rifle, converted to .45 with a moderator.

I was merely seeking information.

All the best.

Chris Goodwin of C&G Firearms based in the UK makes a very good copy of the De Lisle Commando Carbine the quality and finish appears to be first class he has pictures on his web page at http://www.cgfirearms.co.uk

The ones that Valkaryie made were actually visually quite good but he/she/it did miss a few of the "more subtle" features. They are apparently back in business having burnt a lot of people on the DeLIsles but apparently are now concentrating on the M-3 Grease gun. Not sure if new or the same ownership. Not sure of the sound decibel reading from Valkaryie's, but the originals were quite good as to the sound moderation, having had the opportunity to fire an original DeLisle in the UK many years ago at the old Enfield Lock RSAF. (Dating myself here.) A number of gun makers have made copies and Goodwinds are among the best, however the name DeLisle is now owned by a private UK company and I think he as rattled the chain of a few people claiming to make a "DeLisle carbine. The old boy (DeLisle) was a bit of a character and for some reason did not want his prototypes and drawings to go to the British government after his death and they now all reside in a basement along with is original notes in London England. There are boxes of notes and prototypes and most of it now will probably never be public domain. I've had a chance to view a lot of it, and it is a pity for the historical aspect. I'll see if I can find some old photographs I took at the time and I see if I can scan and post them down the line.

I'm still waiting to hear from Mr Laidler here. He should have an earful. I THINK Valkyrie produced non supressed and supressed models. The M3 would be way cool, having fired a good one some years back I know you need two boys with buckets to keep ammo to it.

All of the drawings and patents are now in the public domain now Warren. He was a very private man who didn't say much. I would have to differ about their silenced value though. We have three here and as I might have mentioned earlier, they couldn't really compare with a silenced Sten gun. I accept that the noise meter we were using was pretty archaic but you cannot disagree with what you see on the scale and hear. Aurally, the silenced Sten was on a par with the L34 but the delisle was altogether noisier in that it gave a loud POP whereas the Sten and Sterling gave a sort of 'clack' and thump.

Obviously the DeLisle has entered the hall of firearms classics now - rightly or wrongly - but let's just say that now it's there, let's just leave it. But if I wanted anything quiet....., I mean really quiet....., I'd have a Mk2S Sten gun....................

The sound signature of the DeLisle was certainly different than the Sten Mk.2S and at least we are comparing contemporaries there. The DeLisle did exhibit a much different sound than the Mk.2S but I much preferred the DeLisle. The single shot without the bolt slamming shut was much more to my liking and also the sighting on the DeLislel was FAR superior to the Sten....(my opinion). Sound moderation has developed by leaps and bounds over the years with some of the best kit still coming out of the UK (again my opinion and even though the good Doctor who was in to see you this summer at Warminister claims to be the best) I still find the UK has some of the best kit around out there. Mind you the Madsen K with a can has to be one of the best up until recent years. However; again a much different signature and I don't have the decibel readings, but to the ear it is a different sound that one does not associate with a firearm. Which is best: the apple or the orange???
On what public domain can we find the DeLisle papers ?? or are they just available for public viewing now??

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Originally Posted by Warren

On what public domain can we find the DeLisle papers ??

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Warren,

You can download his patent, description and 2 small drawings, I have a copy of the full size drawing and with the two small drawings of the striker, and the modified bolt head.

Patent application: No 3756/43 & 7964/43 May 19, 1943 (it should all come under GB 579168 (A) )



https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCF3425-1.jpg

Even using my basic physics with a smattering of Boyles law or just the theory of the dissapation of gas under pressure, it's easy to see that the sound reducing properties of the deLisle were medieval compared with what we have now or can I be cruel, and suggest that they were archaic in their sound reducing qualities even in the early 40's......... The National Physics Labs in Cambridge got to grips with it. In six days they invented heaven and earth and on the seventh, they came up with the Sten silencer........... But I am biased of couurse. IT makes me feel like getting one out to play with it.

And that's even before we get on to the arch genius George Patchett with his method of pressurising the exhaust port.......

Nope........... on reflection, if I wanted something that was really quiet.........., something that sounded like a muffled sheep cough, I'll take the L34. Looks to me like it's an L43 out tomorrow afternoon then!

IMG_20190928_203838.jpg Photo by archmoco | Photobucket

IMG_20191021_211235.jpg Photo by archmoco | Photobucket

I was doing some research on a recent purchase and I came across this post appreciate it is very old but though I would add these photos, seems like Sterling Arms did some suppressed conversions.