No 4 Mk 1 T Trials rilfe

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11-19-2011, 03:34 PM
B & B ARSENAL

No 4 Mk 1 T Trials rilfe

Hello All,

Just got this beauty this week. It is in excellent condition. The previous owner really took very good care of this rifle. It has all the EFD markings all over the rifle. Went through it with a fine tooth comb and compared it to the trials sniper in the Milsurps Knowledge Library.

It came with a REL No 32 Mk 1A scope which in itself is very rare. Now all I have to do is find the scope that is matched to my trials rifle and also the Long Branch sniper (71L0322) that is matched to my No 32 Mk 1A scope. LOL.

I would like to thank Roger Payne, Peter Laidler and Andy Carroll for their expertise in helping to authenticate this acquisition. If it wasn't for their input, I would not have pulled the trigger on this buy.

These gentlemen were truly very gracious. My hat's off to these three very knowledgable forum members. :bow::clap:

The pics were taken by the seller. I have not had time to take my own pics.

Image hosting, free photo sharing video sharing at Photobucket

All the best.
11-19-2011, 03:43 PM
Pablo

Beautiful.
Congrats mate.
11-19-2011, 04:33 PM
jmoore

Not a thing wrong with that package. (unless you get all tear-y over the magazine) The striker assembly with the cross screw is especially cool. Let us know if the rear sight retains the early four clicks per rotation. It looks like still does, but it's hard to tell. The ball detent is still there and the sight is Enfield, so that makes it even more likely.
11-19-2011, 05:52 PM
spinecracker

I had to get one of my youngest daughter's bibs when looking through those photos - very drool-worthy.
11-20-2011, 11:44 AM
B & B ARSENAL

Not a thing wrong with that package. (unless you get all tear-y over the magazine)

Thanks jmoore. In my conversations with Roger, he said that most trials rifles he has seen did not have the correct magazine. The rifle in the Milsurps knowledge library also does not have the correct magazine. I sure would like to see a pic of a correct magazine.

Roger said I got a bargain on this purchase. I'm not that sure now, because I have an itch to look for the matching scope to the trials rifle and the correct rifle to the REL scope. It could turn out to be a very costly endeavor. LOL.

All the best
11-20-2011, 03:03 PM
Roger Payne

See, you've been bitten by the enfield bug!

ATB
11-20-2011, 04:16 PM
jmoore

Quote:

Originally Posted by B & B ARSENAL

I sure would like to see a pic of a correct magazine.

I think Badger's got a photo or two of an Enfield mfg'd mag. somewhere. My rifle has a non-Enfield mag as well. They're probably lurking in Bubba's closet as spares, what few are left.

ETA: Nope. My bad. I thought there was a magazine photo somewhere. Never mind...
11-20-2011, 04:46 PM
B & B ARSENAL

Yes Roger, I've been STUNG.

Anyone out there with scope no 13534 or Long Branch no 71L0322 please let me know. Maybe we can make a deal.

All the best,
11-20-2011, 07:12 PM
Lance

1 Attachment(s)

You are looking for scope 3534, the extra "1" I think is just a alignment bruise as my Trials No. 4 has it also. Love you new sniper wish I had found it first!!
11-20-2011, 07:44 PM
B & B ARSENAL

Hi Lance,

So the scope I'm looking for is 3534 and not 13534. Does your trials rilfle have scope no 1136 matched to it or are you also looking for scope 1136.

All the best.
11-20-2011, 08:08 PM
Lance

3 Attachment(s)

Still looking for Watson #1186, I hope it is still out there......... A few years ago the matching scope can for my rifle showed up across the country. The generous owner traded me even for another can. For your reference attached is a photo of the marking of an early HBM scope (not mine) slightly younger than the one you are looking for.
11-20-2011, 08:41 PM
B & B ARSENAL

Lance,

Thanks for the info. Otherwise, I would have been looking for a scope that didn't exist. The scope can on your attachment, is that the can you traded for?
11-21-2011, 01:56 AM
Surpmil

Nice rifle. Looks very familiar. Mine were A0507 and A0703. The first had scope 1161, and the second 3511. Showing that scopes from William Watson & Sons and Houghton Butcher were arriving at Enfield concurrently, which of course fits with the details we learned from Peter's book on the No4(T) about how serial number blocks were allocated to the different makers of the No32.

Now, the "ROF.M.No.4.MkI." T that I had, SN 11618 had scope number 1423, and of course, no T or TR stamps as per these trials rifles. Which suggests that the Maltby conversions were done at RSAF Enfield concurrently or immediately after the trials No.4s.

Makes me wonder if some or all of those Savages we see with no T or TR stamps were also converted at Enfield.

The HBM No3142 above is interesting as it shows HBM dropping the "1941" from the markings very early in their production, before 150 scopes had been made. No doubt because adding dates would allow production quantities to be estimated; wartime security!

Someone out there doing a spreadsheet on these numbers?
11-21-2011, 03:54 AM
Peter Laidler

Nearest I've ever seen since I started to keep records in 1968 is 3533. Close, but no cigar! Also, no trace of 13534 either
11-21-2011, 04:14 AM
Valleysniper

Closest I got is here is H.B.MCo 3449, and 4587, and some earlier Watsons.
11-21-2011, 05:13 AM
Lance

3 Attachment(s)

The can is the one I traded for and has my rifle and scope s/n; it is not original 1941 issue but it matches! No luck on scope #1161 or 3511 on my scope records of girls I have come across. Here are a couple pic's of the earliest girls I have seen posted on the internet over the years.
11-21-2011, 08:51 PM
rayg

2 Attachment(s)

Is this the correct magazine on my Trials T ?
Mine also has the screw in the cock, Ray

Attachment 28293 Attachment 28294
11-22-2011, 05:07 AM
Lance

1 Attachment(s)

That is the correct magazine plate for it. If the spine is marked like the one in the photo you have a factory Enfield mag which is correct on the SMLE VI or Trials No. 4. The cross screw cocking piece is from the SMLE Mk VI but frequently shows up on Trials No. 4's so that is acceptable too!!
11-22-2011, 05:36 AM
Alan de Enfield

My Mk1 HBM Co (No year marked)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../No4T003-1.jpg
11-22-2011, 06:41 AM
rayg

2 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance

That is the correct magazine plate for it. If the spine is marked like the one in the photo you have a factory Enfield mag which is correct on the SMLE VI or Trials No. 4. The cross screw cocking piece is from the SMLE Mk VI but frequently shows up on Trials No. 4's so that is acceptable too!!

Here's the spine markings, Ray

Attachment 28318 Attachment 28317
11-22-2011, 03:25 PM
jmoore

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayg

Here's the spine markings, Ray

Attachment 28318 Attachment 28317

That's the one.
11-26-2011, 12:18 PM
B & B ARSENAL

I have had several offers for trades straight up on my REL No 32 Mk 1A serial no 301-C. Thanks to the forum members who have made offers.

From my readings of Peter Laidler's book, An Armourer's Perspective, this is a very rare scope and I think I will be hanging onto it for now. I would reconsider if the scope to my trials rifle turned up.

Like I already posted in this thread, I sure would like to hear from anyone with Long Branch 71L0322 or No 32 Mk 1 scope serial numbered 3534 which is the scope to my trials rifle.

All the best.
11-26-2011, 01:18 PM
bigduke6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valleysniper

Closest I got is here is H.B.MCo 3449

Have 3458.
11-26-2011, 03:04 PM
B & B ARSENAL

In an earlier post on this thread, Peter Laidler said he is aware of scope 3533 which is only one away for 3534.

I'm still hopeful that it is out there somewhere.
11-26-2011, 04:32 PM
jmoore

Add your info to "~Angel~'s 'Match Making' Service (REPLY ONLY)" forum. There's a thread for rifles looking scopes and another the opposite.

https://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48
11-26-2011, 08:51 PM
B & B ARSENAL

Thanks jmoore, just posted on both threads and hoping for the best. :thup: