I've been looking in the books, archives and CC newsletters that I have, but can not find the answer.
Is there any noticeable differences in type 1 safeties?
If so, anyone have pictures they would be willing to share?
TIA
John
Printable View
I've been looking in the books, archives and CC newsletters that I have, but can not find the answer.
Is there any noticeable differences in type 1 safeties?
If so, anyone have pictures they would be willing to share?
TIA
John
Seen Winchester checkered safeties with a small bevel around the ends, others don't have it.
H-P,
I have what I think is a WRA Type 1 safety here.
Just trying to remember how to post pictures again.
I'll get a few up before I'm done.
Cheers,
Charlie-painter777
Welcome back charlie
Glad to see you are back Charlie.
Hey Charlie, good to have you back!!! We have missed you being on the forum.....Frank
WONDERFUL to see you back again Charlie. You've been very conspicuous in your absence.
I think you will find that Inland and Rock-Ola type 1 safeties have a pronounced bevel on both ends while Winchesters have a slight chamfer on both ends.
Ditto to what the others have said Charlie. Thanks for the phone call and message. Welcome back buddy! :super:
Hey Charlie, glad to see you back. Your safety looks very much like the Winchester below.
Top photo: Inland 18xxx
Bottom: Winchester 1014xxx
From these two photos, it would appear that Winchester has a more pronounced bevel.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-4.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-5.jpg
I am no expert but here's what 96XXX looks like, it's an Ok Carbine but has seen a few battles ! I'll be keeping this one even if I sell a few of the others. Mike.
My understanding is the Inland has a substantial bevel where the Winchester has a slightly noticeable bevel.
Winchester serial #1075569
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...PB010049-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...PB010048-1.jpg
If I read this right the safety Charlie posted is an Inland???
Here is mine. Serial 10138xx, dated barrel 12-42.....Frank
Attachment 29749Attachment 29750Attachment 29748
Frank, from what I see in your photos your safety is the same safety as mine. Thanks
PS, did you find a 22 coil spring?
Hi Bill, I had to go check the data sheet. Yes 22 coil hammer spring.
Looks like your's and mine have the same mag release. Mine and David's are only about 300 apart.
Dave does yours have a dated barrel?
Regards.....Frank
There is not a date on mine. Only a "W" and the WP in an oval. This has puzzled me because I thought the undated barrels were later.
I beleive dated barrels were not the norm for Winchester. Mine also has the W and WP, so alot going on with my barrel.
I'm off to the Katarte school, Back later.....Frank
'pronounced bevel' on Inland and Rock-ola, only a 'slight chamfer' on Winchester. Very good side by side photo on P. 91 (5th Ed.). I know everybody has a copy! FWIW
Good call ChipS. Thanks! I forget about that book sometimes ;) Yes, good side by side photo. :thup:
Hey Frank, yes it does! Please see attached photo. Best regards.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankderrico
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-1.jpg
All my barrel has is the "W" and WP in an oval. I am no convinced this is the correct barrel for this early serial number.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P1120030-1.jpg
Hi Bill, I beleive the dated barrels were very early. Mine is like David's with flaming bomb, W.R.A. 12-42, both under 15k into production. Mine has the WP in the oval 6 1/4" from the muzzle, no W like yours. It has an A stamp on the the bottom in front of the gas piston. and an O stamp in front of the index mark. It has a P stamped in the bottom of the receiver by the front lug of the TH. Mine also has the thumb print front sight like yours, so there must have been some mix of parts going on. Yours is early but over 60,000 later. I'm not sure when they stopped dating barrels but I think your barrel is the original barrel.
Regards.....Frank
Winchester stopped dating their barrels after Feb. 1943.
Bruce, this would indicate this is not the correct barrel for this serial number???
Bill,
Before you questioned your barrel date, you should have started this out as a new post. Just to keep from getting it mired down in the safety threads. Might draw more interest also.
Question might be-
Did WRA start out it's production in Sep of 1942 with NO DATE BARRELS?
They delivered 9,960 carbines in 1942 per Ruth. Starting with their first block at 1,000,000 would bring them to 1,010,000 by 12-31-43.
But using Ruths Approx Serial Number table 1.10 WRA ended Dec of 1943 with serial # 1,016,407, meaning they turned in 16,407 carbines. Not real sure here, but by rounding some edges it would appear Bills 1,075,xxx would safely be between Mid March-Mid April of 1943. Well past the point WRA quit dating their barrels. I'd feel pretty comfortable with his barrel being correct vintage.
Very Early No Date WRA Barrels-
The WRA barrels before Oct of 42 look to have had no date, but usually had a W proof below the Frt Sight and then the Ordnance Bomb. Could also be found with the W stamped on the flat or side of the gas cylinder. I'm not sure about the WP marking. I'd expect there to be one.
10/11-42/12-42 WRA Dated Barrels-
Found like the ones pictured here with the Ordnance Bomb, WRA and Date Below.
W proof and WP stamp. Seen some with a small Ordnance bomb on the flat near the piston or on the side of the gas cylinder.
After Approx 1,025,xxx + or - ( But Thinking after 1,03 Mil)-
No Date WRA Barrels-
WRA Barrels now found with No Date, W stamp nearest Frt Sight. Ovaled WP stamp stamped farther down the barrel. Seems like the WP traveled to just ahead of the front edge of the hand guard...... then when the type III bands came in use (currently made) the WP stamp was pushed up the barrel to be visible with the bayo band on.
Best I can remember. Had a lot of this in hand notes lost when I mis-placed my first copy of War Baby. If I get some extra time in the next few evenings I'll look over the CC newsletters I have.
Now here is a great topic for BQ, Newscotlander, Roger-Bubba and some of the other early WRA nuts.
Be Gentle I'm Trying To Wing It Here :bow:
Charlie-painter777
Some Forum Links,
Need help valuing an early Winchester..
Who made this barrel?
Thank you Charlie, and good advice. I kind of hyjacked this thread. Sorry guys.
Bill, I don't take it that you or anyone else high jacked this thread. It's all great info and I appreciate the answers and pictures to my original question. Everything else is a bonus.
One thought provokes another….. It happens to me almost every time I get out one carbine to check out something and before long there or several more on the table apart along with the first one. And I’m looking at things I wasn’t even thinking about when I started.
Thanks for everyone’s input. John
John, carbines are a strange animal for sure. There seems to have been a great deal of inbreeding, even within the same manufacturer, over the years to produce some very interesting specimens, some genuine, some not so genuine. Depending on the time, day, month and year of manufacture what was on hand will determine the configuration.
I can just see the builder with a bin of safeties, magazine catches, triggers, sears, hammers, etc. pulling from the bin whatever part the fingers were able to brag and that part went into the carbine. A carbine may be one number off in the serial number and have a different marked hammer, trigger of type I safety or type II safety. What is really interesting is you may have a carbine that is a month newer with a type I safety where than the month older has a type II. The same goes for barrels, stocks, rear sights, barrel bands, etc. This is where FILO-LIFO comes into play.
Then there was the procedure of different manufacturers supplying parts when parts ran low so having an Inland part on whatever other maker was possible. It goes on and on!
Bill,
Didn't mean you Hijacked.
Just thought a new post would have brought more attention.
Someone other than I would have a better guess as to your born on date.
I HAD some WRA production dates noted, but as stated they've been lost.
I guessed Mid March-Mid April of 43. Gut wants to say more towards the early part of March.
At 1000 + carbines a day........ anything could have been possible.
I do believe your barrel to be correct.
Good Day Guys,
Charlie
Thanks for the information Charlie. You are right about a new thread but there was a great deal of really good information disseminated here. It is really nice having such knowledgeable people here on this site! :super:
I was going back through some older posts and ran into this one. The safety information is like finding gold and with the barrel information thrown in for measure, well that is cool too.
Hey, if or when you find that Winchester production data scan it onto your computer. How do you lose that??? :slap: ;)
I had printed off notes stashed away in my first copy of War Baby. Best I can remember I must have left it at the motel on a big out of town new build we did.
Can't remember who it was that posted WRA production dates/figures. Lost a lot of good info...... :red face:
Gotta Run,
Charlie
Charlie,
I can't remember the CCNL# but I think it was in the 330's that has the log of WRA stamped recievers. I'm not at home right now to get you the info, but if someone doesn't get it for you PM me and I'll find the article number. IIIRC it was about three weeks after the receiver was numbered that the carbine was assembled give or take depending on what was going on at the plant.