Inland M1 Carb. 1943 barrel

Guys, :wave:
I just picked up an M1 Carbine from the Inland MFG division of General Motors. :D
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1Carb002-1.jpg

The barrel date is 8/1943.:thup:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine011-1.jpg

The serial number is: 627,997 on the receiver. I have a number of features I wish to display.
1. Where did this rifle come from? Sometimes the stock markings are a dead giveaway... I recently purchased it. Did this possibly come from SA or Asia?
2. What features are "original" to this rifle, with the stated serial number range. As known, these have gone through multiple rebuilds.... which are difficult to undo. I am just curious and look forward to any clarifications... My reference book is from the 1980's.... and I believe much knowledge has been gained since then.:help:
3. What is the general opinion on refinishing or leaving the stock "as is". I believe the "tag" covers the arsenal cartouch... but don't believe there is anything left under it to "save".

Now onto some photos!

Here is the stock, and various cartouches and marks...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine014-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine015-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine017-1.jpg
This photo has a cear IO mark on this portion of the stock.:thup:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine018-1.jpg
This number is the serial number on the receiver.

Now onto the barrel... it is marked "Century Arms" as being a recent import....
"P" mark on barrel
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine022-1.jpg
"X" mark on topside of barrel:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine021-1.jpg
Various marks on underside of barrel:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine027-1.jpg
The buttplate is marked:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine016-1.jpg
Which just happens to be the tag tacked onto the stock..
Here is the bayonet lug...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine001-1.jpg
The AI almost appears to be double stamped.
Now onto the triggerguard and FCG...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine004-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine005-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine026-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine025-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine029-1.jpg

If the Century Arms stamp is "CAI" with kind of a "dot matrix" appearance to it, it may be one of the guns that Big 5 Sports has been selling in recent years. I've seen them priced anywhere from $599 right after Thanksgiving a couple years ago, to nearly $1000 when they first offered them. Here in Oregon, a Big 5 employee told me Century Arms brought them in from Israel. I've got an AI front band that is double stamped similar to yours, so maybe it's not that uncommon. I think your buttplate is an IBM. Your trigger housing is either an IBM or Std. Products Type 4. The WA hammer is a replacement. A good reference for parts ID is "US M1 Carbines, Wartime Production" by Craig Riesch - they're about $20. Not sure if you know this, but it's not a good idea to take the action out of the stock with the recoil plate attached - best is to just tilt the action up until it disengages. Your stock although rough, appears to be correct for your serial number range. Nice photos and it's always fun to see carbine pics! I've got a gray cat like that one, and he's always "helping" when I'm messing around with my guns. Others should be able to give you more information about the various parts. Have fun with it! - Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midmichigun

3. What is the general opinion on refinishing or leaving the stock "as is".

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Personally, I really like the 'salty' service look and configuration it has with all the markings, upgrades, etc from it's years in military service.
I would leave everything 'As Is' to appreciate it's military service from WWII and onward. It has made it 60+ years and remained in military condition to now. You could sand 1/4 inch off and remove some of the bumps and bruises and some of the dark color from years of service, dirty hands, oiling to preserve the wood, natural oxidation, and to try to 'erase' it's service history and appearance - then it's irreversible though - You can't magically glue the sawdust back onto the stock to make it it like it was before messing with it!
(Unless your name is frankderrico, but that's another story) ;)

It really shows the history it has and I wouldn't change a thing, and doing so would just harm it's unique quality. I think many people trying to 'fix it up' do much, much more harm than good and end up with a cross of something that's no longer anything but a carbine that's been messed with in civilian hands, almost like old 1903 Springfields that have been 'improved' and turned into hunting rifles.
It is what it is, and that's a good thing. I like it just as it is. :thup:

Of course it's JMHO, (and you asked) :D

~ Harlan

With the stock stamped with the serial number on the left side the odds are it came from Israel. Century has been importing them from there since at leasr 2007.

Ah, the stories that rifle could tell! I agree with Harlan, leave it alone. It is what it is.
Shoot it and enjoy it.

Maybe just me.......
But I'd have to pull that Tag off to see if there was a Inland size Crossed Cannons stamp, If not, it could be put back on.

Charlie-painter777

If that thing could only talk. All of the late upgrades made it last all of these years and still be an adequate military arm. Lucky that it has all of the wrong stuff for part swappers to pass out over. But they'd still manage to stick a Chinese flip on it given any time.

Guys,
Thanks for the comments and words of encouragement!:bow::bow:
I managed to snap some additional photos... here is the rear sight.... what it it?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dhome002-1.jpg
It almost looks like a shield with an "H" in the center.
Here is a photo of the part that I would call the receiver tang... or where the receiver mounts to the stock...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...home0011-1.jpg
As per the suggestion, I did gently pry off the "99" tag... sadly, as expected... no cartouch!
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine001-2.jpg
Here is the clip/ magazine...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine007-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine006-1.jpg
Who is the maker with "SP"? It is stamped on the magazine....
Next question.... do any of you know if the Israeli's ever made their own mag pouches or slings? :help: If I keep this thing "exact" as in Izzy service... I would like to "kit it out" as per how they would have used it...
I did find "commercial", repro, "USGI" and French pouches...:confused:
As mentioned, it has a nice history aside from the US military......
Any help is appreciated.....:cheers:

The cartouche (faint) could still be there. My references show the magazine as a Type1 supplied by Seymour Products, the "H in a shield" marked sight as Hemphill, and the D.I. recoil plate as Dayton Mold Co. for Inland. I also have those same pieces with carbines that I own. Have fun! - Bob

Bob,
Great info! :thup:I appreciate your knowledge!!:cool:

I'm probably only a "book or two" ahead of you, but am trying to learn all that I can - got started later than most of the guys on here. It's all about sharing and Thank You for the nice compliment. - Bob

I think the magazine might be a replacement made by Seymour Products Co, with a type 4 baseplate.

Here's a link showing M-1 magazines. M1 Carbine 15 rnd Magazines

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...aseplate-1.jpg

Guys,
Thanks for the input. :bow:

Most of us weren't around in the 60's when you could buy original examples of Carbines for $20.00 per carload!:bash::lol: The learning curve is different now... than back then.

I am willing to share any info and photos of my items to help others out.... so I am glad that others are willing to help me out also!!:super:

I am mostly an AR and AK type of guy... but I like the Classic firearms... and realize their value in the present and future! This was my first Carbine..... :cheers:

As a side note, my brother bought his Mixmaster IBM in 1993 for $180.00!:confused:

Man, that one's a beater! Must have actually been used in the Six-Day War! The Israeli carbines in the past have been known for the best maintenance/care of any of the imports, but that one has looked into the eye of the elephant. I'll bet its mechanically okay. I would be forced to clean up that stock and steam out the dents. I mean, who really cares what it did in Israel?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midmichigun

Guys,
Thanks for the input. :bow:
Most of us weren't around in the 60's when you could buy original examples of Carbines for $20.00 per carload!:bash::lol: The learning curve is different now... than back then.

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Now I don't know about that statement. Personally I think most Carbine collectors, on a whole, are older then you might think. Maybe I just look into the mirror too much. :dunno:

Some might not want to give their age. Me, happy to have made it this far, 63 next May.:eek:

---------- Post added at 09:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 AM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by INLAND44

Man, that one's a beater! Must have actually been used in the Six-Day War! The Israeli carbines in the past have been known for the best maintenance/care of any of the imports, but that one has looked into the eye of the elephant. I'll bet its mechanically okay. I would be forced to clean up that stock and steam out the dents. I mean, who really cares what it did in Israel?

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I think we all have at least one beater. Mine's an S'G' I call my piece if s**t.
Even though I don't like the markings on all the parts, the Bavarian returns were in exceptional condition.
And I agree. I don't care 2¢ what a carbine did in Israel.

Looking at your stock magnified with the tag removed....
Stock shows lots of built up old dried grease and oil.
I'd de-grease the stock.
You'd be surprised at the original/lightly stamped markings that can be found under 60+ years of grime.
More than likely the painted rack numbers are oil based paint.
I've had great luck using Gunk engine de-greaser on these.

Here's a "After Cleaning" picture of a stock that came on a buy from the CMP. Didn't get any before pictures, but at the time had no idea what maker the stock was. This stock was as grimey as yours. After cleaning a few times I found the RMC marked slingwell, Boxed RMC and CC below it. Also found a small arsenal wood patch on the right rail.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC07123-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC07118-1.jpg

I know for a fact that 30 round magazine pouches were made in Israel and I also have an idea they may have made unmarked 30 round magazines with the hold open follower.

Here's a I cut that I stripped the paint and oil finish off.
The stripper pulled some factory wood filler out of a knot.
Markings came out clear.

fwiw,
Charlie-painter777

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...09/10/R1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC05254-1.jpg

Painter...
OMG... don't get it confused with the rest of the wood in your pile!:madsmile::lol::D
That turned out awesome!!!:cool:

Jim...
My Dad used to tell us the story about being able to find all sorts of cheap Milsurp firearms... as a matter of fact, he never cared about the Carbine.... being mostly a Garand and Springfield type of guy! ;) He would be pushing 70 if he was alive right now.

Stripping the stock is easy... its the preservation of the history that is hard!:o I actually have an interest in Izzy equipment... I have a K98K and a SA 1919 (from parts) that was from there. :thup:

The stock would look 80% better if I removed the chipped and cracked finish that it is on it.... there is some sort of lacquer or varnish..... I think that this is what shows up in the photos the most!:rolleyes:

Nice job again Charlie. Your the man.

A little range report here....
I took the ole girl out and shot some "milspec" commercial ammo. It was VERY consistent as to where it shot..... it did group very high.... and so attempting to adjust it, I found that the rear base was VERY loose! As in I could move it with each shot... and with my lil finger! The staking apparently is no longer mechanically holding it in place.
I added a bit of thread locker and centered the base as to where it "should" be.... if it holds tight and groups well, then I will attempt to restake it.
Wish me luck!

It's easy to preserve the military history of that rifle and have a nice stock to shoot with. For about $150.00 bucks you can buy a NEW carbine stock buy a recoil lug and build a second stock for the rifle.

Mine is from the Korean Arsenal release in the mid 80's Paid $250.00 for it as a gift/payback for my father in law when he gave me a nice M1 Garand (he was armorer of his VFW post).

course soon as he got it he took a rasp to it and F'ed up all the original markings and even tried to reshape the pistol grip some. So mine is junk now. The next project for this winter is to buy a reproduction stock and get it back to looking presentable. Had it out today doing some plinking and it was as always a blast to shoot.

Mark....
Yep... that is an option.... repo wood can be found.... :thup:
Sorry to hear about the rasp vs. wood issue. That is NOT COOL! What exactly was the goal of that excercise???:confused::eek:
Ok.... I ordered a sling and some mags for the carbine... this is what I got....
The sling is supposed to be USGI...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...clear011-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...clear001-1.jpg
With the magazines.... I got a pouch...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...clear002-1.jpg
I see no conceivable way to mount this to the stock... it won't make it past the pistol grip area... therefore I am assuming that it is a simple belt pouch. It reads...
Pocket, Ammunition Magazine
(Caliber.30,M-1Carbine or Rifle)
F.S.N B465-261-6022
Rainier- Bell Co, Inc.
Qm (CTM)250 oi 2037-e-57, 5-24-57

However, I did dig out several old pouches... the one that fits on the stock.... is moth eaten, and has actually survived rats.... It is dated 1943. Here is an example of its condition...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...clear008-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...clear009-1.jpg

The magazines are interesting....
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...clear006-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...clear007-1.jpg
The second mag is....
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...clear005-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...clear004-1.jpg

Hopefully Friday or so... I will get some range time with her again!:D

Both mags are WWII issue.
First mag is made by J.L.Clark Mfg. Co. The letters JLC are intertwined (sp?) making the mark look like a C with a upside down T in it, then Q. It was made for a QHMC originally, but obviously will work on any USGI carbine. Floor plate is a Type 5.

Hard to see the marking on the 2nd mag.
Is it a circled SL ? If so it's a mag made in WWII by M.S. Little Company for Standard Products. Base plate looks to be a type 2.

The D Tip sling would be post WWII. They work well but can be hard to loop thru the oiler slot. Many have pounded the tip down with a hammer to help install.
Your guess is correct about the mag pouch, it's made to be hung from the belt.

HTH,
Charlie-painter777

P.S.
Here's a link to help ID mags. I'm not sure about any errors on it.

M1 Carbine 15 rnd Magazines

M1 Carbine 15 rnd Magazines

Painter,
I think you are spot on with everything there.... thanks for the clarification!
Yes, the second mag is an SL. It is a very light strike, that I couldn't get to show up....
For now I will keep the pouch that I have on the buttstock, in place.... it goes with the character of the carbine.... and probably doesn't have much collector value due to the poor condition!

I am not sure if has been covered but the mag pouches were never meant to be used on the stock. They are supposed to be carried on the belt until some GI found they are very handy on the stock. They are a very tight fit. If you set the mags in with the round edge out they seem to fit better, at least for me they do.

No range report yet... but I did take a photo of the rifle...
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rbine002-1.jpg

Snowing up there?

Charlie-p777

Painter...
LOL! You are local... you know what we get... its either snow or rain, 365 days of the year....
Today we were lucky, we got both sun, rain and snow!
Today we were going out to do a mini shoot, but my friends opted to stay dry...
But that was ok... more ammo for me!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midmichigun

Painter...
LOL! You are local... you know what we get... its either snow or rain, 365 days of the year....
Today we were lucky, we got both sun, rain and snow!
Today we were going out to do a mini shoot, but my friends opted to stay dry...
But that was ok... more ammo for me!

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Come on, it's can't always be that bad. Well, maybe in the winter.
A couple of years ago I took my wife to the Grand Hotel on Mackinac Island in mid Sept. We had five sunny days in a row.
But then Charlie did tell me that was pretty lucky weather.

Here's a link showing M-1 magazines. M1 Carbine 15 rnd Magazines

I found this link on a old thread and understanding the caution of using old info posts. However, when their is a new owner of a Carbine, Wouldn't some of these detailed parts posts be helpful in a central area or is their already one? :confused:

Thx, :)Mic

The mgazine is a Type I. According to Riesch "The code "(SP)" is for Seymour Products Company according to the marking on an original wrapper. The code does not refer to Irwin Pedersen." The manufacturer is listed as "Miscellaneous."

Man, I would love to get hold of that stock and steam the dents out and the old oil and grime off. BTW, on the rear sight, it would not be centered unless that's the way it turned out after sighting-in. The sight base was shifted with the aperture centered until it was lined up, then staked in position. That way, the aperture remained centered for most shooting. Also, carbines were designed to shoot high because the sighting concept was '6:00 hold'. The 100 yard sighting target allows hits to be as much as 12" high. This is done with the range set at '1.5 - 1'.
Your rear sight should be set as it was supposed to be and mechanically staked in place. The sight can be tightened-up by peening the sight dovetails - not the receiver, unless done by a professional. If you break the receiver dovetail, you're S.O.L. The sight is supposed to be removed to the right and installed to the left, getting tighter as it goes.

Inland,
I was pawing through racks of Carbines at the last gunshow, and I really thought about what some terpentine and steam would do with mine. I cleaned up a Carcano recently, and was SHOCKED by what I found underneath the paint and grime. I suspect I would find some cool stuff under my M1 crude!
I was further shocked at the gunshow, on what IBM's were running. Best deal was a Quality with a "W" barrel, imported by CAI. It had an M2 stock and was going for $600.00. The Rest of the carbines that I saw, were well north of that, including Inlands (but in better condition than mine).

Where abouts in Michigan? Down here in the SE I saw a couple SGs and a quite a few Inlands in the low $600s, with ones sporting early features closer to $900 and $1k and everything in between