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I'm looking at the purchase of a rifle described as a No4 MKII and in unissued condition. The condition does appear to be unissued I however find this hard to believe. It was further described as being a Royal Irish Constabulary (RIS) contract rifle. The serial number is listed as "uf55a8553". I have requested additional pictures. Can anyone provide information on these rifles and any specific markings I can look for. Regards, dino.
It's not at all unusual to find the very late (UF) series No.4 Mk2 rifles in unissued condition...indeed, they show up still in the factory wrapping from time to time. The RIC was long gone by 1955, and "Irish Contract" has gotten to be more or less a marketing catch-phrase with No.4 Mk2s.
Here's a link to the Knowledge Library article on a still wrapped UF55 rifle, some markings are visible...hopefully someone will chime in with a pic or two of an unwrapped one...
https://www.milsurps.com/content.php...ill-Wrapped%29
If your No4 Mk2 rifle is marked with a serial number beginning UF55A then it was made under a Ministry of Supply contract for the Air Ministry for the Royal Air Force. Nothing whatsoever to do with Ireland........... Why they remained as new and unwrapped is another matter
Can you shed any light on why the air ministry rifles remained unwrapped Peter? I have a still wrapped PF 1954 rifle which I presume is the same batch?
I can't answer for the PF rifles, only the RAF UF55 rifles
Don't make us drag it out of you :) why were the air ministry rifles kept in the wrapper???
Ah yes. It's a long story and I've told it here already so that nobody thinks that I fall into the category of 'pulling teeth'
In those days, the Navy were controlled by the Admiralty, the RAF by the Air Ministry and the Army by the War Office. Unlike now, where it's all under the Ministry of Defence umbrella. Each had its own separate budget and the like. The Army knew that it was going to get the 'new' FN rifle starting in late 1957 from the Ministry of Supply (MoS) controlled ROF s at Enfield and Fazakerley. The RAF and Navy were to be the very last in line to get them (they were too, still having No4/5 rifles Sten/Lanchester guns in Singapore and Malaya into the mid to late 60's). The MoS were keen to keep the Fazakerley workforce intact until the new L1A1 came off the production lines. Their only current work was the Sterling SMG production and this was soon to go pear shaped (a bit like the SMG gun casing production) and some new No4 production. Most FTR had dried up[ because the Army didn't need No4 FTR because they had a) sufficient stocks and b) were going to get the new FN anyway.
Fearing that they were going to get left behind, the RAF ordered a last batch of new production No4's. These would bear the NEW numbering system that had just been introduced, the UF55A serial numbers. These last rifles were to the RAF of course but by the mid 60's, the first L1A1's began to enter RAF service. That these UF55 rifles were for the RAF was shown in documents called ACI's that told quartermasters with No4 rifles in their charge that with the merging of all Ordnance Stores from the various Navy and RAF stores to Army stockpiles in the UK they could expect this type of numbering on No4 rifles. While I didn't take any notice, the very FIRST of these RAF type UF55A Mk2 rifles was those coming into Army workshops for the first time, from RAF Cadets and the school Cadet Forces with an RAF section - who were supplied separately until then of course.
Demand for No4's fell like a stone and so the existing MoS and MoD stocks were sold off to make way for the 'new' rifle. But this time, instead of the Army being first followed by the Navy and the RAF.................... anyway, there's a very abridged version about those rifles. Incidentally, the UF55A rifles, complete with the brand new wrapping and tags did find their way into the Army Cadet Forces system due to the amalgamated stores stockpiles.
One sequel to this noted by me at the time (due to my No5 experiences) was that the later Mk2 fore-ends without the magazine cut-off block were not available or even codified within the UK Military Ordnance system. The paperwork went winging its way onwards and upwards until someone asked me if it was a problem with the 100,000 No4's in Cadet service and held in Ordnance stores was a problem. No I said, just so long as current REME Armourers with these 'new' No4's were aware of it. At this time in the MoD, fore-ends were already in short supply due to many having been taken out of service and converted/butchered to L39 and L42 spec.
WOW, nicely done, thank you for all the history. So this begs the question what is an unrapped maybe not fired UF55A rifle worth on the open market. I know that this rifle has no war history but I do like the No4 and it is in new/like new condition. I'm weighing the option of the purchase of a war time rifle and the refinish work I'd do to it to make it newer looking. Appearance / condition is high on my list. Regards, dino
If you want a new looking rifle get this one. Don't get an old one and 'upgrade' it to new looking because by doing that you will diminish it's collectability significantly. I would buy one new and one WW2 rifle if I had the money. You hsould have a NO.4 Mk1 and a No.4 Mk2 anyway:)
I very much agree. I have a No5 carbine so I see no reason not to start a nice Enfield collection. I'll maybe start with this UF55A and build from there. But what is a good price? Should I buy it now or wait for a more reasonable price? This is the first one I've seen. What are they worth or what is an average price in todays market. I will use it as a shooter.
I forgot to mention it but the main man at the RAF end, who could answer any questions about the amalgamation of what were called 'common' weapons (not aircraft cannons and the like, but small arms stuff....) was a genius. He was a real RAF small-arms Armourer and not a bomb jockey (sorry BP.....). His name was Flight Lieutenant Stan Payne and he'd come through the ranks. We used to meet at the Armourers Dinner until a few years ago but he's passed on now. Even their part numbers didn't equate to the Army numbers - or even the old MoS part numbers now that I think about it - , and they were only just getting used to Browning from their old .38" No2's and S&W's. It was him that divested the RAF of its old .303" Bren Guns for 7.62mm L4's and he's to blame for a small cock up with them. All Air Cadet and school RAF CCF cadets had .303" Brens for ammunition compatability. But he had the .303's withdrawn from them in the 70's and reissued with 7.62's until someone realised that they weren't scaled for 7.62mm ammo.......... anyway! I think that the RAF rifles came with a 9B-XXXX or something part number code while we were well into NATO 13 figure. He told me that during the integration period, the RAF found that they had a zillion No9 bayonets in stock! So if you still have wrapped ones in yoiur collection with the RAF 9X-XXXcode, that's them too!
They also kept their No7 rifles for a LONG time, well into the 80's but once they got into the Army system, they were replaced at the first unserviceable opportunity for No8's