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Not sure if this is in the right place. I'm new to the forum and the Garand I bought my first one a few weeks ago. How do I tell if it is set up to shoot modern ammunition?I have read differant places that if there is too much pressure it can tear it up pretty bad. But if it has the right gas port I will be fine. Is this correct?It is a beautiful H&R with what I can tell all matching parts and I don't want to hurt it.
You'll find a variety opinions about whether or not current commercial ammo is safe to fire in a Garand. The Garand gas system was designed around M2 ball ammo using IMR 4895 powder. It is generally accepted that full power loads using powder slower that IMR 4064 and bullets heavier than 180 gr can damage the operating rod. Some say it can't/won't. Last year, I asked Remington what of their 30-06 loads they recommended for use in the Garand. They replied that they did not recommend any. So, I stick with M2 ball or equivalent loads.
However, if you use an adjustable gas plug, you can regulate the amount of gas driving the op rod and reduce the port pressure. I don't see why you could not use any ammo if you first open the plug all the way, releasing all the gas, and then close it in increments until the gun cycles reliably.
All this presupposes that you are using a Garand in tip top shape with no worn or out of spec parts. For one thing, I'd replace the op rod spring with one made by Orion 7; they are the best made today. No matter what ammo you use, replace the op rod (and clip latch) springs. The USGI springs may be too short; worn (shiny spots) or rub marks; kinked or even broken. The op rod spring is the only thing that keeps the bolt from hitting the heel of the receiver.
First, welcome to the forum. There are some of the most knowledgeable people around on this forum, and they're very friendly and helpful.
Just an honest question. Is there a reason why you wouldn't just use M2 ball only? I'm no M1 expert, but I have quite a bit in the one I have and I've never even thought of using anything but M2 ball in mine. Try to hedge my bets for having the least chance of problems.
If you just need a source for M2 ball and don't know where to find it currently, the guys here can tell you where to find it and the best current deals are.
There is another thread here about Greek HXP M2 ball ammo that I replied to. The same info may interest you: Both Federal and Hornady sell loads for the Garand. The Federal is a military-style FMJ bullet Federal Premium - News Releases and the Hornady is a match bullet Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: 30-06 SPRG :: 30-06 Springfield 168 gr A-MAX® M1 Garand. The Civilian Marksmanship Program sells both plus M2 ball ammo - Greek HXP ammo that is boxer primed and reloadable. Civilian Marksmanship Program eStore
HXP ammo is generally excellent ammo - with the exception I mentioned. A second exception would be ammo that is corroded or otherwise deteriorated. See Related Sales
I will have to get some m2 ball. I don't have any right now and it's gettin hard to let the thing set. but,I also have a 1917 and hopefully in the future 1903 both of which I'm under the impression are ok to fire modern stuff. I would like to have them all three able to shoot it to avoid any confusion. and make ammo easy to get off the shelf if I need. Or where can I find all the info to reload my own to military spec so that can be the only thing I need to keep around. I have been reloading for about 2 years and my manuals don't give me that info.
TR&Z USA Trading Company (http://www.trzusa.com/), the U.S. importer of Prvi Partizen ammunition ('PPU'), told me last May (2011) that their .30-06 150 g FMJ load is M2 ball compliant - that it was made to work in a Garand.
Also American Eagle ammo, made by Federal, has a 150 g FMJ cartridge that specifically says (on the front of the box) that it's made for the Garand.
I have shot both types and will comment that I've had some difficulty in getting the PPU ammo to fit properly in the Garand's Enblock clips (the diameter of the cartridge case is ever-so-slightly too large for 8 rounds to fit). I've talked to TR&Z about this and they say that their ammo's case dimensions are compliant with industry standards (I'm using Enbloc clips made by Agressive Engineering, 'AEC', and they're listed on the Enbloc clip spec). My 'solution' (at least for now) is to only load 7 rounds of PPU into the Garand's Enbloc clips - it seems to work fine.
So far I've had no problems with the American Eagle ammunition (8 rounds fit nicely in the Enbloc clips) other than it's more expensive than the PPU ..... :)
- Paul
Hornady makes a load that they market as specific for the M-1. It uses the 168 Amax and for a factory load it works exceedingly well in all my M-1's and 03/03A3's. The item number for that ammo is 81170. I use that load to compare against my handloads and I have not found anything better. Sometimes it is not easy to find around my area but try it out, I think you will like it. If your M-1 is in shooting shape it is great stuff.
Rick H.
It's actually pretty rare to see problems caused by shooting other ammo, but I feel better only shooting M2 ball in my M1. I just don't see taking a chance, and patience is a virtue as always.
I also use the M2 ball in my 1903's but wouldn't have any problem using a commercial ammo - you can even use hunting ammo in them with no issues.
I am also looking for the best ammo types but mine is because i am in western canada and it seems to be about impossible to find M2 of any kind, lots of surplus for Russian or other NATO rounds but exporting any m2 from the us is way to expensive and difficult for most stores to bother withQuote:
Originally Posted by Harlan
Tennessee Gun Owners
check this out maybe he will ship?
Thanks for all the info. I'll probably be buying PPU it's easy to find and I use it in my .303's and like it.
I shoot American Eagle's 30'06 ammo that they make specifically for M1's. The price for this in my area is $24 per box. If I cannot get that, then I install an adjustable gas plug and shoot either American Eagle or Winchester 150gr Springfield 30'06. I have had good performance with both.
There is a guy on the CMP forum who has done a ton of pressure testing on period and modern ammo in the Garand. Basic conclusion is that any modern 150g ammo puts less force into the op rod and bolt than the original 174g M1 ball. And most current factory 150g is not hotter than some of the snappier HXP M2.
Get the recent Hornady reloading manual, special sections on reloading for the Garand. Last 2 editions have the special chapters on service rifle loads .308 and 30'06.Quote:
Originally Posted by kenwest516
I read this thread. Very good info and dispels alot of myths.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea3006
Eric at Garand Gear has come up with an alternate to adjustable gas plugs. He calls it a ported gas plug. The difference is that instead of venting a portion of the gas, his ported plug is hollow, adding volume to the gas expansion chamber. More volume = less pressure.
M1 Garand
His idea makes sense to me so I ordered one and it arrived a couple days ago. I have not had the time, yet, to try it out.
Do you reload?
I cannot find a search function on the CMP forum. And there are 650 PAGES of threads on the Garand. Can someone please provide a proper link to the contribution mentioned above? Or tell me where the search function is hidden? Is there one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea3006
I tend to agree with what Sea3006 says Patrick. I just use the vented gas cylinder lock screw to ease my ejection pattern. Here in Canada we use whatever 150 gr ammo's cheapest if we don't re-load. No stories of damage...none whatsoever...
It is at the top right of any forum page. You can use the Google Search or the Advanced Search in the black line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
Bob
Go to M1 Garand - The greatest single battle implement ever devised. The M1 Garand. and under springs and things , look at and read all the data from tests with this plug and decide for yourself. IMHO, anyone who actually shoots his Garand should have this Ported Gas Plug, you will get different opinions I'm Sure, but I use one and have shot several different surplus and commercial loads and am completely satisfied with the performance.
A vented Gas Cylinder Lock Screw sure does cover your a**...I used mine yesterday. Left my brass, for the most part, right around my right side.