My 91/30 ex-sniper rebuild

As promised, photos of the finished project. This rifle is an ex-sniper bought at Dunham's for $79.99 plus tax and fees, roughly another $10.00. Scope is a Firefield brand reproduction with cast steel mount for $137.97 + $16.48 shipping. Drill, tap and cutting oil were approximately $11.00. Bolt conversion service was through ebay $30 + $5.50 postage.

The stock has been stripped, cleaned and refinished with linseed oil, many coats. I spent about half an hour this evening doing some finish polishing of the bolt handle. I did the stock work and tapping and mounting of the scope myself. Final cost about $291.00. Haven't sighted the scope in yet, waiting for a nice warm day.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...niper004-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...niper008-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...niper007-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...niper006-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...niper005-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...niper009-1.jpg

That's a very nice rifle and nice job. Did you re-tap the original threads?

The original threads were not set up for a PU scope mount. From the photos I've seen they weren't quite right for a PE mount either but that is probably what was on it originally. It's a 1942 and that is the transition year from the PE to PU. I've never seen a photo of the lower PE mount so I don't know where the holes and pins are on those mounts. I have a couple photos on the other sniper build thread showing the interior of the action and you can see the location of the two rear holes. The two front holes are beyond the bolt opening, one may even be so far as where the barrel screws into the receive, can't see very well up in there.

That rifle used to be a PEM sidemount. Both PEM and PU rifles were made in 1942. Pictures of a re-scoped one. http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=33725.45

How do you like the scope? Yours seems to have a different rear lens arrangement than the pictures on sportsmans guide and on Firefield's online store.

Phooey! Found one last week whilst milling through a crate full of 91/30s and plumb forgot to see if it was set up for the PU or the PEM. As I've had a PEM scope for near on 25 years, one would think finding a rifle might be a good idea...

Local LE bought it on the spot, maybe if it's not an ex-PU we can work out some sort of deal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrtank

That rifle used to be a PEM sidemount. Both PEM and PU rifles were made in 1942. Pictures of a re-scoped one. http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=33725.45

How do you like the scope? Yours seems to have a different rear lens arrangement than the pictures on sportsmans guide and on Firefield's online store.

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I still haven't had a chance to shoot it. 70 degree weather the past couple of days so I should make an effort to get out. A lot of other things going on right now. I bought it through the Sportsman's Guide, never noticed any difference with it and the photos but probably didn't look that close. I was never able to find one on Firefields website, couldn't find one anywhere but Sportsman's Guide and I did a lot of checking at the time before I purchased it.

My only regret is now that I went ahead with this project, I'm finding original rifles and what appear to be original mounts and scopes for $400 instead of the $800 I had been looking at. For that extra $110, I'd have made the deal. Oh well, it happens.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

I still haven't had a chance to shoot it. 70 degree weather the past couple of days so I should make an effort to get out. A lot of other things going on right now. I bought it through the Sportsman's Guide, never noticed any difference with it and the photos but probably didn't look that close. I was never able to find one on Firefields website, couldn't find one anywhere but Sportsman's Guide and I did a lot of checking at the time before I purchased it.

My only regret is now that I went ahead with this project, I'm finding original rifles and what appear to be original mounts and scopes for $400 instead of the $800 I had been looking at. For that extra $110, I'd have made the deal. Oh well, it happens.

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$400 for a legitimate PU Mosin is a steal. Heck original scopes with the mount and no base are a round $400 now.
I have been noticing a decent number of the reproduction PU Mosin Nagant in South Central PA. Though all of them were using the Ukraine reproduction scopes with flat screws on the turrets, and NY marked serial numbers that never existed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

My only regret is now that I went ahead with this project, I'm finding original rifles and what appear to be original mounts and scopes for $400 instead of the $800 I had been looking at. For that extra $110, I'd have made the deal.

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Don't regret it. You made a splendid job and are now more experienced in handling your Mosin than if you had simply spent more money.

Wonderful work. Nice pictures as well.
Thanks for posting

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrtank

$400 for a legitimate PU Mosin is a steal. Heck original scopes with the mount and no base are a round $400 now.
I have been noticing a decent number of the reproduction PU Mosin Nagant in South Central PA. Though all of them were using the Ukraine reproduction scopes with flat screws on the turrets, and NY marked serial numbers that never existed.

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Very good possibility that is what I'm seeing. I didn't look them over that closely I saw them at Lebanon, York and Allentown. I'll have to check out the screws the next time I run into them, maybe Harrisburg this weekend.

Yah, but Putting a PU on an ex-PEM? I'm thinking there may have been an opportunity lost somehow...

Maybe but I wanted a PU setup.

Understood. Just feeling a bit frustrated having that PEM with no proper rifle to hang under it! (It did serve as a good AR10 scope for a while, but the AR10 is long gone. Did keep the "one off" ring adaptors though.

I found mine at Dunhams. Where there's one, there may be another. Then again, chances are probably the same in whatever crate gets opened up.

Beautiful job. Very nice rifle. And this is a side not and has nothing to do with your rifle. Am I the only one to notice that every 91/30 ever imported into the the US has been an X sniper rifle? And I'm not doubting your wasn't. Most on here would know if their rifle was or not. I just always thought that was funny. I personally doubt the ones they sell with military scopes mounted all were sniper's rifles.

Jerry,

From what I've heard, the rebuilds they sell as sniper rifles were just regular 91/30's. Mine definitely was a sniper rifle although it took me a few days after purchasing it to figure that out. It was not sold as such, it was simply the best finished rifle in a batch of war built rifles and was purchased for that reason. It was when I was cleaning it that I discovered the old scope mount holes inside the receiver. And to be honest, my first reaction was not positive. I thought there was something seriously wrong with it and it took a few days of investigation to figure out what it was. The holes were filled with cosmoline at time of purchase and I didn't notice them. As such, it's the only one I've seen and I've looked at quite a few before and since. I have seen them for sale from time to time on the internet but not in person.

Things to look for, the obvious, screw holes on the wall of the receiver that can be seen only when the bolt is open. Less obvious, ground and polished receivers where the scope serial number used to be and the faint weld lines where the screws were welded into place. Pre-war will most likely look the same finish wise, wartime will be better finished than their non-sniper counterparts.

Jmoore Keep an eye on J@G they sort through there Mosin Nagants and sell the ex-snipers separate. Right now they only have a PU Izhevsk, they list Tula and Izhevsk separately. Could give them a call I have been thinking about doing that since I haven't run into a ex-PE, ex-PEM, or 1941 Tula, Just noticed there is a 1939 Tula ex-pem on gunbroker.

Aragorn243, does the reticule in your scope move or does it remain centered like a modern scope?

The reticule moves a great deal. Setting this up looks to be a somewhat complex process. You have to get both the reticule and the scope lined up properly by loosening and tightening the mount which has set screws for up and down. It may require shims for side to side. The idea is to have the reticule centered near the top for 100 meters and when cranked down to 800 meters it will be near the bottom. Could be the other way around, I'm not looking at the set up sheet right now. Once you have that completed, you loosen the screws on top, move the knobs without moving the reticule and then tighten everything up again. Bore sighting it, I believe I have it shimmed properly for left and right but I need to shoot it to see how close I am.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

The idea is to have the reticule centered near the top for 100 meters and when cranked down to 800 meters it will be near the bottom. Could be the other way around,

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No, not the other way around - you've got it right as it is! Try and set it about 3/4 of the way up at 100 meters.

That one looks now better as new! Good job!

Did you cut the boiled linseed oil with any thinner? Thanks for the heads up on the scope, glad to hear it isn't like the accumounts self centered reticule. I am tempted to pick one up to use on a non-mosin firearm.

Did you get to the Harrisburg show?

No, I don't cut the linseed oil with anything. The can is really old, it was old when I got it and I've had it 20 years. I rub it on with a finger a coat an evening while I watch TV until it gets tacky. After that, I rub it until it's not sticky and then put another coat on after a few days. It gets to the point where it's almost like the shellac only a lot more durable and easier to finish.

I did get to the Harrisburg show. I looked at the "snipers" they had there and some did have the repro scopes on them, these were the $400 ones, others looked like they might be the real deal but these were going for $575. Price was up on all the Mosin Nagants, I think $119 was the lowest and most were asking $125 and up. Dunhams is running their $79 sale today only, with the price going back to $89 tomorrow. There were half a dozen dealers selling them so I guess they aren't drying up yet.

I was going to say it looks a lot like the blond wood with light shellac on my 91/59, I like it.

I got to stop in at the show late Sunday. One vender had a table of the repo snipers and clamming they were legitimate and was offering paperwork.

Some of the venders had packed up when I got there and even when I was walking around, I kick myself for not going earlier. I did see one of the ATI imported proper PU snipers wasn't that far from the main door 43 Izivesk with a 41 dated pu scope. It looked like they cut the shellac with chocolate milk.... They have USA and German import marks and modern proof marks, the vender was asking $995 or so ATI lists them on there web page for $679.

I like the linseed oil finish you did, it isn't overly shiny like some of the bees wax top coats I have seen. It seems close to the finish on the Yugo Mosin Nagant and some of there other rifles.

Can someone give me a quick thumbnail on PEM / PU and save me some surfing?
Thanks

PEM scope:

http://mosinnagant.net/sniper%20sect...COoffmount.jpg

I learned my lesson on going to gun shows on Sunday. I was never finding anything and figured all the good stuff was going early on Saturday. I got a great deal on a K31 early Saturday, and that's the rifle I was hoping to find.

One oddity about the stock on this particular rifle is that it's short. About an inch and a half short. There is a repair on the end and the handguard was shortened to match. I checked all around and found no information on a short stock so I figure it is an arsenal repair.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

PEM scope:

http://mosinnagant.net/sniper%20sect...COoffmount.jpg

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Sorry for my poor wording of my question. I was looking for a quick description of the diffrence in the two scope setups.
I have heard them discussed but not certain of the basic diffrence.
Thanks

The PE is a center mount 4x scope. It was on hex and low wall round receivers. The scope had focus adjustment.
The PEM is a side mount 4x scope based on the same scope as used on the PE, though it lacked the Focus adjustment. It was found on the high wall round receivers.
The PU is a side mount 3.5x scope. The scope did not have focus adjustment and was designed to be mass produced. Was only found on high wall round receivers. There were some early aluminum tube examples but they are rare. There is also the SVT scopes the scope tube is larger in the rear to act as a recoil lug. The svt scopes were also found on PU Mosin Nagants. They further simplified the scope to the and removed the large step in the scope tube, giving us the Pu scope that we all know and love. There were also some 6x Pu scopes one svt variant that I can't find much information on and one later Polish version built off of WW2 scopes. Note the soviets used the straight tube PU scope on heavy machine guns, a lot of time they will be painted green.

Nice picking up the K31, I feel everyone should have one. They are so well built, and accurate. If you are shooting the surplus save the brass. The correct berdan primers are available again. I was lucky enough to pick up a 1942 Tula ex PU sniper. Did you get a K31 that had the tag?

The K31 does have it's tag. Just got some surplus yesterday, looks like I got the last that AIM had for the moment.

Mrtank
Perfect synopsis! Thanks!
K-31? Really odd looking rifles but the ones I have seen are really nicely made and reasonablly priced (relitively speeking). Several dealers have them any recomendations?

K31's are in short supply around here. Cabelas got a shipment of them in a couple of years ago and ran various sales on them. At the time, I wasn't interested because they weren't WWII related in my opinion. But having read a good book on the Swiss in WWII I decided that part of the reason they weren't involved in the war was because of that rifle. Not the rifle itself perhaps but the spirit of the nation etc. So belatedly, I decided I wanted one. Cabelas had no more by that time and I didn't see another until a gun show about three months ago where they wanted $375 for it. I was seeking one for $300 so that was out. Sarco had half a dozen of them as of two months ago but they were either in the same price range or they didn't have a matching magazine. The Harrisburg show had one at a dealers table and it was reasonable at $325 and I had planned to go back to offer $300 when I encountered a fellow carrying one with a for sale sign. He wanted substantially less than $300 so it made my day.

What to look for:

The bore should be very bright and sharp, if not, which is rare, don't buy it. The metal exterior is usually well maintained but the finish may be thinning or thin. Serial numbers are located on the bolt, the receiver and the magazine. A partial serial number will be on the barrel, last three digits. These are the ones you can see, those you can't see are on the two pieces of the stock which will be in the barrel channel. It is rare that the barrel, bolt and receiver will not match. The magazine on the other hand seems to be the weak link. About 50% are mis matched. Some will have slings, some won't but they are not difficult to get and originals are in the $20 range. They are usually black with grime and a simple washing will probably turn them into a dark to even light brown. The Swiss emblem will be at one end and the company and date of manufacture at the other, may be hard to find due to the grime. Most should function perfectly as they were well maintained. There are two types of stock, walnut and beech. Samco is selling both types but they are cracked. Not sure if this means they should not be fired but it doesn't sound good. Walnut is more desirable for several reasons, it will be a prewar or mid war rifle, it wears much better than the beech, and is more sought after. The stocks are the weak point with these as a lot of them are really beat up, especially the beech stocks. I've read stories this is because they set them down before going inside and when they came out they had to kick them to break them free of the ice to them being used as ladder rungs to get over obstacles. Some of the nicer looking stocks have been sanded down. They will have a very strong Swiss emblem stamped in them on the butt stock on one side. If this is light, it's been sanded. This was done at the arsenal level so it is seen quite a bit with the beech stocks. This was one of the factors that lessened my interest in the Cabela's rifles. most had very light markings and a few had none. While these did not see combat, they did see very extensive and realistic training and mobilization exercises so they will show wear. The Swiss rifle forum had links to just about all the information you should need.

Almost forgot the piece of paper under the butt plate. These rifles are somewhat unique in that they were only ever issued to one individual who kept it in his home for as long as he remained in active or reserve status. They used a plasticised piece of paper to write their name, unit, rank, birth date and home address among other things. Most are on one side, a few are on both. Mine has both sides written on but no date of birth. So there was no real set in stone standard. If these individuals wished to keep their rifle upon reaching the age they were no longer considered eligible for service, they could buy them from the government at cost. The rifle would then be stamped with a "P" denoting it was privately owned. Not all will have the paper and I've seen a few for sale at times which is unfortunate because for once, there is a definite recorded historical link to the person who carried it that can't be duplicated accurately if you purchase one for your own rifle that had been missing its.

Sorry this took so long but I finally took the sniper rebuild to the range today.

I'm very pleased with the scope and setup. I'm not very pleased with my eyesight. I've been battling near focus for two years now and am losing the battle. I encountered something I never had before. I can't focus the sights on this PU scope with my glasses on. Take them off, I'm fine, crystal clear when with normal style scopes I can't see a thing. Focal point is probably a lot closer with this type. I can't read small print without taking my glasses off either. I don't think bifocals will help shooting as I'd really have to can't my head back, not sure, any advice on dealing with this situation would be appreciated. Problem number 2 today was some nervousness with firing the rifles. I had shot the 91/30 before but there remains a slight worry of something going wrong which puts me a bit uneasy when shooting. Doubt that will be an issue next time as all rounds look fine, had no extraction issues this time and primers look good. First time shooting the K31 too so thoughts of that bolt flying through my cheekbone were there. Again, no issues, didn't really expect any. That action is very smooth, spent casings go flying way up in the air. If I could see what I'm shooting at a bit better, I'd be having a ton of fun.

Sighting the PU sniper in was fairly easy. Shoot once, center the sight on the point of aim and then turn the knobs to move the sight to the bullet strike. Two shots and it was on. Would have been one but I instead centered the sight on the bullet strike and moved the sight to the point of aim which of course made it exactly in the opposite direction. Shot a few more at 25 yards while loosening the knob cover and moving the lined ring to center(that wasn't exactly easy and I had to do it three times) it and then moved to the 100 yard range. I managed a 3 inch group with my bad eyes and the terrible trigger pull (I'll have to work on that).

I also shot the K31 at both 25 yards and 100. It was shooting high and to the right and I had no tools along to adjust it. When moving to the 100 yard range, it again shot high and to the right, I managed a 4 inch group that was at the upper right corner of the paper, three shots on paper, two shots just off.

So the groups are me, not the rifles. I simply could not focus at that range and with open sights could not even see the bull. I was shooting at 8.5x11 sheets of paper with a dark ring in the center. Works fine with higher power scopes but not with open sights. The trigger pull on the K31 is sweet.

Now I'm off to clean them. Swiss has non-corrosive but I'm not sure on the Nagant so it got sprayed at the range and swabbed out. Put plenty of windex down the barrel so it should have neutralized the bad stuff.