Disassembled an Ishapore FTR'd No.4 Mk.1/2 T for cleaning & inspection and had my first look at the fabled center bedding shim. Thought I'd post a picture in case anyone was interested.
Attachment 29804
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Disassembled an Ishapore FTR'd No.4 Mk.1/2 T for cleaning & inspection and had my first look at the fabled center bedding shim. Thought I'd post a picture in case anyone was interested.
Attachment 29804
Interesting that it has been done with a small metal shim, mostly done with wood. Savage forend must be unusual too!
Thanks, thats a perfect match to the descriptions in a book I've got here, I still don't quite understand how the points settling into the wood would even be possible, it seems to me that their job is to anchor the shim from moving fore and aft, and that the plate should be resting on the wood around them, with no way to settle.
Just in case someones reading this, the method was described as producing results but it was felt that the points squeezed into the wood and the shim settled, over time, thus reducing the up pressure and therefore accuracy. The stock T bedding was preferred therefore because it didn't settle, but otherwise the india method performed as claimed.
FWIW the most accurate enfield I have is center bedded on that spot, also with a metal shim of a slightly different design.
Mine was bedded the same way. Also has Savage wood and quite a few of the other parts are Savage as well. With the center bed job it would shoot 3 shot groups of 1 1/4 '' at 100yds. Took it apart one day to see what the metal condition was like below the wood line and found that both draw patches were broke loose. While reparing these I bedded it back the traditional way, had to patch up under the reinforce and at the stock tip where barrel had been floated. Shoots a lot better now.
how long is bedding plate form reinforce?
It's ten inches from the front of the receiver-pretty much centered with the lower band.
Very interesting. Therically speacking, at the center bedding plate, the barrel exerts a downwards pressure or the plate is only a contact point? At the muzzle is there any pressure?
Mine was midway between the reinforce and lower band. The only place the barrel made contact with the forend was at the shim, wood had been removed at the reinforce and tip so it would float else where.
I was too lazy to remove the whole forend prior to answering bow's question so I just pulled a handguard and poked around with a slip of paper until I thought I'd found the shim. Vintage hunter's reply got me thinking so I opened it up completely and there it was, 4 3/4" from the receiver, midway between it and the band. Sorry if this has caused any confusion. If you'll excuse me, I have to go assemble a rifle quickly-Oprah is on TV in half an hour.
Steve, just wondering, are you gonna watch the TV or shoot at it?:D
This may be a trivial question for you guys however:
I just bought an LE No 4 Mk 1. The furniture wiggles around the barrel/receiver A LOT - i.e. down at the barrel end of the front handguard the barrel can move up and down at least a quarter of an inch.
Is this normal?
I have handled other LEs that don't move at all. If it's not normal how do I fix it? Do I have to replace that shim thing that you showed pictures of on this thread?
Thanks
No, it's not normal. Before you do anything else, make sure that a) you have a screw through the rear of the trigger guard and b) that the screw at the front of the trigger guard is tight. Now see what happens............
My centered bedded no4 mk1/2, very accurate, ball burnished/parker etc, requires 12lbs up pressure at the muzzle to free the barrel off the center bedding. From the bedding forward the barrel is 100% floated. All of the non stock bedding No4's I've looked at, about a dozen, require up pressure to lift the barrel off its bedding, and its almost always higher than the upper recommended No4 lbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by bow
How long is center bedding plate from the end of reinforce/beginning of the barrel, and what are bedding plate sizes? I would try with a resin compound that warp around the barrel from 4.00 to 8.oo o'clock in order to reduce moisture and wheather effect on wood. Hanguards are bedded, also? I believe handguard bedding is a trouble...Work isn't so accurate in Handguards..Quote:
Originally Posted by RJW NZ
The shim that was in mine measures 1.5'' long by 3/4'' wide and .020'' thick. It was roughly 5 inches from the center of the reinforce to the center of the shim, between the first and second lightening cuts in the forearm. Not sure what you mean about the handgards being bedded but they should never touch the barrel anywhere.
Late 303 had a sort of bedding on the handguard in the same placev where the bedding plate sits on fore end. I think it was used in Parker Hale regulated rifle. But i saw only photos of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage hunter
No1 rifles were often "packed" above and below the barrel, but centre-bedded No4 rifles generally just have the barrel resting on a single block, and the handguards and forend relieved to allow the barrel free movement upwards. Occasionally you do find grease or wax on the barrel over the support block location, but this appears to achieve little as it clearly displaces very quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by bow
The only No4 bedding variations are the very rare types of experimental (and apparently unsuccessful) bedding. One type has the barrel in a neutral position within the forend, but held in tension by two opposing No1-style spring studs:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...00621335-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...00621333-1.jpg
Bow and others............ can I make a suggestion in the nicest possible way and at the risk of upsetting some. Centre bedding and all of these other magic methods of bedding are a bit like the proverbial 96 year old auntie who smokes 60 full strength cigarettes a day plus half a bottle of scotch and is still going strong. Yep, some do.........., most fail.
Just like some of these bedding methods that depend on nothing mnore than 'my mate says........', a bit of hope and a good dollop of white mans magic. Some might well be superb and put every bullet into the black. But the only trusted, tried and tested method is the CORRECT method.
Just ask yourself this single and simple question. If these other methods of counting nodes, vibrations and frequencies were better than the standard laid down, why weren't they used and authorised for use on the sniper rifle. And to be honest and fair, that is a rifle that depends on being accurate ALL THE TIME
Just a thought, and bear with me if I'm repeating old advice; the barrel on a no4 is easily moved with the fingertips at the muzzle, its made that way, on the other hand if you're sure that the wood is moving around the next check is the main screw in front of the magazine. If that is tightening up and the wood still moving its not unknown for the screw to bottom out in its hole, try adding a lock washer so that the screw has a few more turns it can pull up. The screw can bottom out if the wood has become too thin for the screw to clamp on, either through someone's wood work, or the wood oils drying out. Keep us posted if you've solved the problem or not, theres a few things to look at.Quote:
Originally Posted by GFR
Peter, it's very difficult to rebut your statement, Sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
When I was much younger, my friend and I used to build specialised engines for modified sports car racing teams. He had a thing about people who insisted on us lightening flywheels past a certain matematically worked out point - a point of diminishing returns in effect! I feel the same whenever I read those words 'centre bedding' or 'coke can shims' or 'credit card plastic' or 'barrel down thrust..........'
One of the great tutors at Shrivenham (he's passed on now and I forget his name that's on the tip of my tongue.....) always used to bang on about barrels (if you'll excuse the pun.....) by repeatedly telling us that what the part of the barrel IN FRONT of the moving projectile was doing, was more important and had more influence on the projectile than the part of the barrel it had already passed through - if that makes sense! And it's true. Think about it.............. The bullet has already been there and it's the rest of the barrel that is going to influence it from now on.
I think about this when I hear about centre bedding. Like I said, some swear by it - just like the proverbial long lost auntie who smokes 60 full strength cigs a day. But not me...........................
I've always found centre-bedding to be extremely marginal in .303 - most of my best shooters have been standard.
Centre-bedded SRb rifles from the likes of Fultons, Stensby, A J Parker, etc, have a small statistical accuracy advantage over standard rifles for the simple reason that they were all hand built - i.e. 100% of that sample group have had attention to their set-up, whereas x% of standard rifles will probably have not had any attention since they left service, or have never been properly fitted.
The only time I ever centre bed a rifle is as a last resort when a numbered original forend is too banana-shaped to be adjusted for standard bedding....
That's what i mean. Center beddig s fore-end is a way to save it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbox