There are lots of rumors about them but does anyone here actually own one?
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There are lots of rumors about them but does anyone here actually own one?
No, only a 70 & two 71's.
'74 and '75 dates are the latest I've had.
I know of a '79, just hope I can obtain it one day.....
They were around and I remember seeing them. As I recall, the DE and year were much larger font than the 70's rifles. There was a distinct break between the trickle after the 75 era and the 80's to await and gather a large enough batch that would make another conversion programme economic. I know of one that didn't make it to disposals...............
I'll need to check but it was these late ones that had converted Mk2/1 to L1A2 telescopes due to the fact that all of the Mk3's had been used up. This is the reason why this fact isn't mentioned in the EMER - as it was written and promulgated before the event! The No32's telescopes for the last L42's were converted at Aldershot (Les Alexander and co) and Warminster (I forget his name now)
So far I have only seen 70's, 71's 74's 75's and 79's
Hello all, this is my first post, bear with me, been lurking in the background since discovering this forum a few weeks back. I've been avidly soaking up all the enfield info, plus a bit on the Bren, and I have to say thank you to all those highly knowledgable contributors out there, I've found it to be facinating reading and learned a lot.
Anyway, to the point.
I also wonder where the 1980 L42's are, never having seen one. I assume (which I know is risky) that a greater number were made than are now known of. Were they most likely given the chop? are they at home or abroad somewhere?
Anyone care to speculate.
There might not be many out there but you can be rest assured that they do exist. I have seen them with my own eyes and know of where one actually exists as we speak. But, proportionally, the numbers were very low. Not quite as low as ex trials rifles but I'm aware that someone has calculated the possible numbers.
You can also be rest assured that none remain in the UK MoD inventory, contrary to popular belief. The very last two and the supporting paperwork went to the Small Arms School at Warminster
My wife has a 71 and a 79 in her Enfield collection ... :)
The 1971 is the basis of an article in the MKL...
1971 L42A1 Enfield Sniper Rifle
Regards,
Doug
I was looking around the internet as one does, and I found this intresting link. The imperial war museum webpage, lead me to the following link of an 1980’s L42A1.
Rifle 762mm L42A1 (FIR 10547)
Well, I am currently in possession of one. Here is picture of the receiver markings.
Attachment 51034
Here is a picture of the non-hammer forged barrel.
Attachment 51035
Saved Imperial War Museum information for posterity and future member research .. ;)
Quote:
Catalogue number: FIR 10547
Display status: IWM London
Production date: 1980
Alternative Names
FULL NAME: Rifle 7.62mm L42A1
SIMPLE NAME: rifle, bolt action, fixed box magazine
Creator:RSAF Enfield
J Stevens Arms Co, Chicopee Falls, MA, USA
Category: weapons and ammunition
History note: One of final batch of conversions carried out at Enfield. Produced at Enfield 1980
Attachment 51036
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
Physical Description: rifle, chest, sight L1A1, case, rail fitted with MKII sight, slight damage to slide
1. stamped on left of body: S No4 MK1*
2. overstamped on Savage inscription: L42A1
3. stamped on left of body: T, Enfield ED mark, 80
4. stamped on receiver ring: ENGLAND
5. stamped on left of body (partially obscured by rail lug): US PROPERTY
6. stamped on left of butt socket: B TR
7. stamped on receiver ring, bolt handle and chamber: modern Birmingham proofs
8. stamped on chamber: CR 1470, Enfield ED mark, FB351
9. stamped on butt: 25163
10. stamped on base of magazine: AH2812
Shoe303 very nice rifle and very rare!! Can you post more photos of the rifle, and transit chest? I wonder does it have an L1A2 or L1A1 scope? I understand that some of them had Mk.2 converted L1A2 mounted; due to the reduction in numbers of the Mk.3 converted to L1A1.
many thanks danl96a1
Hi Danl96a1. Scope is an L1A1. Here are some more pictures of the rifle and chest.
Attachment 51335Attachment 51334Attachment 51336Attachment 51337
Odd that it has a MkI or MkII scope fitted.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanL96a1
Funny that the MoD had no Mk3 scopes left, having sold off thousands. You'd think it might have been simpler to buy some on the open market.
Why go out and buy Mk3 scopes to supplement the dwindling reserves when there were already plenty of Mk1, Mk2 and (already partially converted?) Mk2/1 scopes in the system. Remember that lots of these later converted L42's were rifles culled from Police Forces who were required to hand them back to the MoD to receive Enforcers in return. It has been said that many of these were in poor condition, having been issued on loan to Police Forces in the 50's
Peter, can you remember who converted the later L42's, was it Enfield themselves or a base workshop somewhere? and any idea on how many later converted rifles there were?
Two sides to every story :Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
It almost looks as if the MOD sorted out the 'scrappers' to be sent to the Police, and the pOlice were paying £310 each per year to 'hire' the rifles.
"......In the meantime, the 'borrowed' L42A1 Rifles had not impressed the Met. Twenty of the first batch to be 'hired' were returned straight away after being inspected by the force armourer. Another five were sent to the Royal Small Arms factory during the first year. Following an inspection by the Weapons Branch, Technical Group, Woolwich on 2nd August 1972 it was found that 17 out of the 30 rifles needed workshop adjustment and of those 9 were unsafe to use! The defected rifles were sent to the REME workshops at Donnington.
We aren't comparing like for like here....... There was NO charge up until the 70's ish for any weapons loaned from the War Dept or the MoD. It was a tacit agreement between the Home Office and the War Dept. to counter the fact that some Police Forces didn't have anything to combat increasing Armed cime while others were using old hand-in stuff. It was deemed that there would be sufficient officers trained in the old .38" revolvers and No4 rifles for any force to equip a reasonable group of men to take on armed criminals. And as a general rule, it worked. Different now of course.
How do I know this............. I was charged with overseeing the return of the on-loan revolvers some No2 Brownings and No4 and T rifles to Donnington in the later 70's and early 80's.
As for the L42's.......... Army snipers seem to be happy with them. So far as I was aware but Police snipers weren't eh!! I call it the 'Land Rover' syndrome. The Army have been happy with their well used and easily maintainable land rovers since the late 50's. Show me a Police Force that IS happy with Land Rovers
I wasn't aware that there were Peter. I think we all assumed that the MoD in its wisdom would have sold off the MkI and MkII sights, (and rifles equipped with them) before selling off the Mk3 scopes or rifles equipped with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
But if they didn't that's not surprising as one hand rarely knows what the other is doing; it can be seen happening here to this day.
So those as-new-in-the-chest No4(T) and "T less Telescope" rifles would have come in handy after all it seems.
Probably it would have been too politically embarrassing to be seen buying up rifles and scopes on the civilian market however, though they were cheap and plentiful enough in the 70s and 80s here, and I assume there too.
All L42's were converted at Enfield. The later ones were done to reinforce the dire shortage of stocks of L42's in Ordnance.
Re thread 19: It was while I was gathering the info on the whereabouts of the remaining loan-store No4's and T's (and No2 pistols and No2 revolvers while we were about it.....) that I learned of this dire shortage of L42's from WO Bill XXXX REME who was running the whole programme at the RSSD at Donnington. I was a Sgt, just prior to being Commissioned and we met up here in Abingdon one lunchtime and had a spot of lunch at 'The Broad Face' to swop figures and he went on to discuss movement arrangements of the stuff that didn't concern me. None of this stuff was rented or hired. It was all on loan and not even recorded anywhere except by local Polioce stations where it was stored! Which meant that if there was a better one than the one you owned, or a telescope was better or that you even wanted a spare telescope, bracket, tin etc etc etc, then a word in the right place meant that......... Anyway, you get my drift.
Having slept on this: Re thread '18, it'd be quite staggering - but not impossible of course - for a police 'armourer' to know more about the inspection and serviceability regime of the L42's loaned to him than that of Mr Cooper, known to all as 'Ivan the Terrible' the out inspector/weapons at the serviceability and out inspection bay at Donnington. Like I say, a staggering feat - but not impossible of course!
There......... Any of you with the stores inspection label on the end of your chest, certified as complete and up to standard, endorsed by I Cooper, that's him!