Curious about Remington 1903A3

Attachment 31434Attachment 31435Attachment 31436Attachment 31437Attachment 31438Attachment 31439Wondering if anyone can help me understand what the history of this rifle might be. I bought it many years ago at a show in Medicine Hat, Alberta where a guy had several like it that he said had been simply cleaned of storage grease. Serial number is 3,503,414 from Remington. It appears to possibly never have been shot as the bore is like a mirror, the parkerized reciever has no wear marks, and the stock only has a few storage dings. Being used to Lee Enfields with abundant markings on the metal, I'm intrigued by the lack of marks on this rifle. I have taken a few photos that show the few marks I can find that are not obvious Remington marks and wonder if anyone has any thoughts about whether this rifle was issued to any organization or simply put in storage. The photos show a star-like form on the right side of the knox-form, the characters A28/V midway down the barrel, a pair of faint characters adjoining the barrel indexing mark, and a funny banana shape on the left of the barrel about one inch in front of the knox-form. Thanks, in advance, for any thoughts.

Ridopho - It appears to be a rifle fresh from rebuild. Some parts have been replaced and/or refinished.

I notice the bolt sleeve is Smith Corona and possibly the bolt. Hard to tell from the distance of the photo.

I believe the A28/V is the barrel steel lot code. All the other stamps look like the usual inspection stamps.

What is the barrel date? Do you see any stamps on the left side of the stock, above the trigger?

Mike

Mike: Thanks for the quick response. The barrel date is 3-43. The stamps in the wood on the left side are: RA, FJA, and the crossed cannons which are all standard Remington based on posts I've seen recently in this forum. The only other marks on the wood are a few faint stamps in front of the magazine which are shown on one of the photos. Are there specific marks that might be indicative of a factory repair or are you thinking a private rebuild? I have a hard time understanding why anyone would undertake a restoration as it has the typical 03A3 crude components on top of which it would be an extremely thorough rebuild as every last part looks brand new (for example all bolts/ screws look like they've never been touched with a screw driver). Do you know if there were factory repairs of the 03A3's? Thanks again,

Ridolpho

Ridalpho - Check the "sticky" at the top of the '03 forum page in regards to "original configuration". It displays factory finishes. Blued vs. parked, etc.

Likely the original barrel. I think the original stock should have pins vs. bolts. Do you see any encircled "P"'s under the wrist?

The mix of parts and color of the park on some of them is common with rifles that have been through an arsenal rebuild.

Mike

Mike: Yes, there is a clear encircled P under the wrist. Comparing my rifle with the one on the "sticky" I see one main difference- all parts of my bolt assembly are a matching colour of parkerizing (only the sight doesn't match). The stock throughbolts are identical. I should mention the metal of the receiver, barrel, etc. shows no scratches or dings of any kind other than a couple of tool marks on the barrel. Would arsenal rebuilds have been done at Springfield? It's amazing to put this one beside a 1918 Rock Island '03 that I have. I know it was a "wartime expedient" but they sure did cut some corners.

Ridolpho

originally...the only parts that were phosphate finished were barrel, receiver, front sight base, safety lever, and on some early Remington A3,s bayonet lug..the rest of the parts were blued.
most of the parts on your rifle are parkerized, and done so during rebuild... not a bad thing, just an observation.

Mike D. and Chuck in Denver: Thanks for the useful comments. I'm not concerned about its originality, just interested in its history. I don't think my photos adequately illustrated how unused it appears to be. If it is an arsenal overhaul they did one heck of a good job! Do either of you see any markings on my photos that relate to either original issue or site of later overhaul. I gather from some references that these were not intended as front line weapons but were issued on an interim basis whilst production of the Garand was ramping up. Thanks again,

Ridolpho

The rifle is possibly unused after rebuild, but it shows all the signs of having been rebuilt.

This photo shows the correct blued bolt with phosphate safety mentioned by Chuck, and blue hand guard retaining ring.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/ekn789-1.jpg

Johnny: Thanks. It would appear there is a clear concensus that Remington didn't parkerize their 03A3 bolts. Do you know if there is anything I could look for as an indicator of where the rebuild was done? Appears to be nothing on the wood so did any arsenals put marks on the barrel or reciever that would tell the story? The barrel still bugs me as it is as close to unused as a barrel could be but it's date agrees with the serial number. It seems strange a rifle would need an overhaul that saw the bolt replaced (or original parkerized?) with pristine barrel. Looking at the bolt, I see a small "R" on the underside of the handle and an "8" on top. Pretty much the whole thing was parkerized (including locking lugs) except for the extractor and collar. It may be hidden by the parkerizing but it doesn't look at all worn (believe me, as a Lee Enfield collector I know worn!). In any case, thanks to all that responded. I'm not trying to put a value on this gun- eventually I try to put together a little history on all my Milsurps and with no new Enfields to play with this one came out.

Ridolpho

There is no doubt that the original Remington bolts were blued. All the rebuilds were not marked, and the ones that were are marked on the wood instead of the metal. For any number of reasons the outside of the rifle could have required a rebuild, but may have been fired very little, leaving the barrel in excellent and reusable condition. It is not unusual at all for the barrels to be reused if they met specs.

Attachment 31866Attachment 31867Attachment 31868Attachment 31869Attachment 31870Thought I'd add a few photos that capture the green parkerizing colour. To sum up the dope on this rifle:
1) March 1943 barrel date agrees with serial number (it's a 4 groove barrel in excellent condition).
2) Uniform light green parkerizing (including on bolt) indicates rebuild with no evidence of use post rebuild. Everything appears to be Remington but, as pointed out by an eagle eyed member, the bolt sleeve, which appears to be Smith Corona.
3) There is evidence of an earlier (dark parkerizing?) finish on the bolt handle which has the number 8 stamped on top, "R" on the underside, and some hazy numbers stamped on the back off the handle (5 & 6- see photo).
No responses have suggested anything about marks indicative of where or when the rebuild was done and I'm now a little nervous about the history of the gun. I believe I'll hold off on shooting it until I've located some headspace guages. Does anyone have any info about where proper rebuilds were done utilizing parkerizing of this distinctive colour (only Remington?)? Has anyone ever run into an amateur rebuild where this colour was achieved?
Thanks to all that responded to the original post. I'm a newcomer to Springfields but have started to get interested in them and have a couple of books on order.


Ridolpho

I think it unlikely that you will be able to determine any history of a specific rifle. Yes, some "Springfield" rifles were issued to front line US troops early in WW2, but any Remingtons would have been 1903's, not 1903A3's, which were produced later in the war. It may have been used by a stateside unit, or held in reserve.

It could have been rebuilt at any US arsenal. The greenish phosphate finish has changed over time, with color changing due to contact with oil & grease. Skilled gunsmiths (read: like Chuckindenver) can reproduce the color today with tints.

When these were rebuilt, they often had an arsenal rebuilt stamp on the stock:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1903A4_3-1.jpg
In additional, an original stock would have had another proof P stamped on the grip area.

Many 1903A3's were sold to the US National Rifle Assoc. members in the 1950's by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship; some were brand new, some like new from rebuild. I would guess that's where yours came from. If loaned to a veterans organization, they were still US property & should have been returned to the US military, unless they were stolen.

Neal: Thanks for your comments- pretty much sums up everything I was wondering about. I've gone over the stock very carefully and see no evidence of a rebuild stamp on the stock and there is only a single proof stamp on the grip. Due to the parkerized bolt assembly it's clearly been rebuilt but that appears to be as much as can be said about the history. I am curious now about why the originals had the bolt blued. As everyone knows the a3 bolt is pretty crude and bluing would seem to be a strange finish for it. In a recent "Guns & Ammo" Surplus Firearms mag a Mr. Hacker states that early a3's "were parkerized with a dark finish, although toward the end of '43 the parkerizing was changed to a light grey-green shade, which can also be found on arsenal repaired examples". As I mentioned there are spots on the bolt handle where an earlier dark finish is apparent and it's not bluing. I'm led to wonder if the parkerizing wears off rapidly on a bolt leading to the re-parking of the bolt on a very little used gun. I guess I'll see how rapidly the green stuff wears off as I use this rifle at the range.

It's definitely been through an arsenal rebuild. The color of the park from rebuilds is different from the original park. The Arsenal rebuilds usually look a little brownish that's unique. (Especially the bolt) There were quite a few that didn't get marked - there were also some that went through rebuild they didn't touch at all but they got the rebuild stamp.

One of the top, and most knowledgeable 1903 collectors told me there was a behind doors deal to keep SA open and they 'rebuilt' many A3's that were still in new condition and that's why there are so many reparked A3's that have no wear.

Not a bad thing at all to have an arsenal rebuilt 1903A3 - It's still in it's military trim. Much better than if it had been refinished in civilian hands - that brownish park would be hard to duplicate. My 1903A3 below is my favorite shooter of all my guns and it accurate as any gun I've seen.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...84Medium-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...85Medium-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...87Medium-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...97Medium-1.jpg

This is one of my others that still in original shape. Notice the difference in the parked parts from the reparked part above. Also, you can see the blued parts well.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...13Medium-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../3Medium-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6Medium2-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../1Medium-1.jpg