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I picked this up yesterday and cant find any reference to what it is. I know its a paratrooper stock and thats about all. Bore looks brand new. Mfg is "national ord" What have I got here?
I bought another one at the same place that is marked "universal" Its very nice as well,but I think it is a clone of some sort.
thanks
Neither one is a USGI weapon & they were both well after WWII. Don't know too much re the Nat'l. Ord. carbines,except that they were an outfit in California. Most of the Universals (except the early ones) don't have a very good reputation f/quality or reliability. The para stock looks to be an Italian repro. I have one & it fits/works OK. I'm sure some of the experts here will tell you more re your 2 carbines.
This is the other one.
Welcome to the site. Just because these are not milsurps doesn't mean you are not welcome to join in and stick around.
Both of your carbines are commercial manufacturers. They are not military surplus.
If I recall correctly, the Nationals were made of predominantly USGI surplus parts, except barrels, whicg were turned down and rechambered 1903 Springfield barrels. There is a lot of info on both on M1CarbinesInc.com
The last National Ordnance (see edit below) that I looked at did have the '03 barrel - pretty slick job of machining and fitting to the gas piston housing. It also had a welded receiver which could be a problem. I think I see signs of welding or repairs on yours, too. Maybe check them out real good before shooting. - Bob
3/15/12 - I believe the carbine I saw with the '03 barrel was actually a Federal Ordnance - pretty sure the receiver was welded up. I don't believe it was a casting, but may have been - possibly one they "saved" by welding a flaw. A local gun shop has a National Ordnance carbine on the rack now, and it doesn't appear to have an '03 barrel. I believe it was made mid to late 60's after reading the article that IMR linked to in the previous post. - Bob
I saw what I thought was porosity too and was afraid it was a cast reciever. It shoots fine but maybe I should be looking for an inland and off one of these. I bought them for scabbard guns which is a fairly brutal life. The plan was to see which stock setup I liked better,then get off the looser. The Universal seems smoother even though it has stamped parts,but I havent shot it yet.
Here's a new development! The slide jumps out of the reciever groove and allows the bolt to flop around inside the reciever.I can wiggle the slide around and get everything to go back,but this cant be right?
Yes, that's not that uncommon.
The slide probably has a worn tab (the little tip on the slide that rides in the right hand slot on the receiver). It has specific minimum measurements, one of which is that it needs to be at least .080" wide across the bottom tip. You also may have a problem with the barrel indexing. Several forum threads on that, just do a search on carbine barrel index. Third thing may be extreme wear on the receiver rail where the tab fits in.
Just spots to check on and consider....
Thanks,I'll check this out.
National Ord. would have had a cast receiver. I think all the commerical carbines had cast receivers. Most were cast by the same company with just a differant name on the receiver.
Current Auto Ordnance/Kahr M1 Carbines have cast receivers, also.