SG Stock Questions

I have a SG high wood oval cut stock that has the boxed SG and crossed cannons where they should be- But this stock does not have any RSG stamps in the slingwell or the handguard- In the slingwell is a very faint stamp of the number 5- There is no P under the grip but in front of the grip is a P with a D under it and off set to the right as you look at it- I think the P indicates an arsenal rebuild but I have no idea what the D is or why there is no RSG marking- I would apprecieate your all's thoughts- Thanks

Turkey Creek, welcome to the forum. Pictures of your stock will help us.
The RSG in the silngwell can be either very faint or well struck, I have seen them both ways.
The RSG stocks often have numbers in the slingwell. I'm not sure, they must have been some kind of a code. I have a couple with differant numbers in the slingwell.
A pic of the P&D would be helpful. I have seen RP-D stamped on the bottom of the grip.
Is the cartouch, S'G' or S.G.?

Regards.....Frank

Robert Irwin stocks used by Saginaw Steering Gear (SG) were commonly found with letters/numbers in the bottom of the slingwell
This is also seen on many TRIMBLE TN made stocks used by (SG).....

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...KIF_0219-1.jpg




Don't think I've seen a Robert Irwin stock used by Saginaw Grand Rapids (S'G') with letters or numbers in the slingwell.
However these (S'G') RSG stocks from Grands Rapids often have the Ink stamped numbers in the bottom of the stocks channel....

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00777-1.jpg

Frank,
The OP Turkey Creek could have a lightly stamped Trimble TN stock used by SG on his hands, or a lightly stamped RSG. Those slingwells took a beating. He should be very Happy he can see the SG and CC ! You know we've seen both TN and RSG very lightly stamped.... :bash:
His pictures may help.

Cheers,
Charlie-painter777

Charlie, you're right, I didn't think about it being a TRIMBLE stock. We just saw a TN stock that had a very light TRIMBLE above the TN. I did one awhile back that TRIMBLE only showed up after a good cleaning. Turkey Creek's may be the same. Looking forward to the pics.

Have a good one and best regards.....Frank

Thanks guys- I will try to get some pictures for you to look at- This is a SG from Saginaw not Grand Rapids S'G'- The number 5 is relatively clear in the slingwell- I've used a magnifing glass in the slingwell and if there is anything else there I can't see it- The PD in the front of the grip is a capital P and underneath it offset to the left is a capital D- I mis spoke in the original thread saying that it was offset to the right- The crossed cannons cartouch is there but is wearing thin on its right side- The boxed SG is in good shape- This thing is attached to a Saginaw reciever serial number 351xxxx- There are no repairs in the stock that I can detect- Again I will try to get some pics ASAP- Thanks

T-C,
I have markings I've found only by using a camera. The little flower symbol- Macro (?) setting.

Your large P stamp is more than likely a from the carbine being fired after some work was done on it. Maybe just at a unit level, if it was in a post WWII rebuild program, we'd expect to see a facility stamp on it like RIA..etc.

Cheers,
Charlie-painter777

This is My Saginaw Trimble

Could the " D " be a " P " with a faint tail ?
Chris

Sorry it took os long, but here are three pictures of the markings on the stock in question- This is the first time I've tried to add pictures so bear with me please

T-C,
I hate to see it and say it, but the boxed SG is a reproduction.
Not fully sure about the partial Crossed Cannons stamp.

Those are both P proof stamps on the frt of the pistol grip.

Where did you get this stock?

Charlie-painter777

I was afraid of that- This was purchased off of Gun Broker

T-C,
Makes me sick to tell you that, but I'm positive about the SG stamp.
CC also would have to be questioned. Though it's just a partial stamp (More than likely struck lightly intentionally) The Flame lick doesn't match up to known originals.
I'll post a couple pictures here, some I own, and some from friends to compare.

If you recall, feel free to post the sellers username if you feel you were mis-lead.

Regards,
Charlie-painter777

RSG stamped Stock.....
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_6810-1.jpg

Another RSG Stamped Stock....
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC04051-1.jpg

Stripped RSG Stock........
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC07353-1.jpg

Charlie- Thanks for your input- I'm in conversation with the seller now and I hesitate to name him until things get further along- I am happy with the carbine itself but of course not so with the stock- Could you be more specific about the reasons you feel the stamps are not legitimate so that I have more ammo so to speak with the seller- Thanks a bunch

T-C,

The G on your stock is very much like the earlier fake/reproduction stamps we were seeing being offered on Ebay.
Latest batches have improved.
Your best proof is using the pictures I posted of real SG stamped stocks.


Here's another faked SG stamped carbine stock.
Different style SG stamp used than your's but still a fake.
I'll post a picture of a very similiar SG stamp from Ebay.

GB Auction....
M1 Carbine - Saginaw Gear (SG) w/H/W Stock : Curios & Relics at GunBroker.com


Here's a list of Ebay sellers and buyers I kept track of back when most of these auctions were still public. Most now use a 'Private listing'.
The SG stamp you'll see is likely the same type used on the GB auction listed above.
There are now many versions of these. Some so close many can't tell.

HTH,
Charlie-painter777

P.S. I think it's in the M1 Garand forum here, but a very good posting by RickB about fake stamps., You may have to drop in to the members file and look for his username, then hunt back thru his postings.

Here are Fake Stamps and one of many sellers....
m1 carbine stamp | eBay

eBay Feedback Profile for bardall1

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC07811-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC07812-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC07813-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC07809-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC07810-1.jpg

I just got around to taking pics of my new Saginaw carbine. I am kind of confused regarding the stamp in the slingwell, and I would love to hear your opinion:

Serial is ~3.37M. All other parts seem to be original. I attached two pics, one of the stamp in the slingwell and one of the cartouches. Fake/real, what's going on and what is the number 39A? I only found one reference on the number, and it is (?) an indication of lateral support from Inland. Any clues?

Beginner,

Real.
Right side SG boxed and crossed cannons is the primary contractor who received and assembled the carbine. Markings in slingwell in the manufacturer of the stock, but the 39A was added by Saginaw.

Ref: CC newsletters, War Baby.


Depending on how in depth you want to get into carbines, and we are all still learning, there are some good options. You can join the The Carbine Club - A CMP Affiliated Organization They put out a newsletter, and you can purchase back issues. And or buy some good books. War Baby and War Baby Comes Home by Larry Ruth, go into detail where others like U.S. M1 Carbines, Wartime Production by Craig Riesch is more of a quick reference and parts markings.

JimF4M1s:

Thank you for your reply, and thank you for the good news :)
I do have the books you mentioned, but I am not yet a member of the Carbine Club. I assume they accept members from Europe as well?

Here is the carbine in question, as I know this board loves pictures

Saginaw Gear did get some stock from Inland and your stock is one of those. Should have the oval oiler slot. You have a nice one for sure.

All's well that ends well- The seller made everything good- He accepted a return of the item and gave me a full refund including original shipping fee- Thanks to all here who were so helpful-

Glad to see that.

I just hope the next buyer has a good support system to help him out too. Because it will go back up for sale.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by painter777

.......... if it was in a post WWII rebuild program, we'd expect to see a facility stamp on it like RIA..etc. ..........

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Unless it was rebuilt at an overseas Depot in which case it would not have a rebuild stamp.

To bad questions about a carbine on GB aren't automatically posted in the auctions text.
It will be offered again as complete or parted on Ebay (- receiver).

CH