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I wanted to see if someone could help me out. I got this 1912 Enfield from my dad. I have figured out most of the markings through internet searches but one of them continues to elude me. On the left hand side below where the safty would be is a marking. It is an arrow pointing up with RIF and 1927 below it. Any thoughts on what this is? https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG2969-1.jpg
chris.gsr: RFI = Rifle Factory Ishapore. Your rifle was probably rebuilt or reconditioned at Ishapore Arsenal (India) in 1927. The arrow is the British Broad Arrow denoting British Government ownership. The original manufacture date and maker should appear on the right side of the action/butt socket.
1912, huh? Want to see the rest of it!
Whilst the stamp does indeed indicate refurbishment at the Ishapore factory, actually the stamp is "RF" and the character in the centre is an "I" surmounted by a Broad Arrow.
This is the ownership mark of the Indian government and was introduced in 1896. The "I" does not stand for "Ishapore" but "India". It can also be found for example between the "K" and "F" on all Indian .303 inch ammunition produced at Kirkee.
REgards
TonyE
I'm not sure that I would agree with that Tony......... While the I might apply to India in respect of ammunition manufacture - of which I know absolutely nothing about - , I say that with regards to small-arms, then RFI most definately IS Ishapore. I'm not saying this about this RIF 1927 mark in particular as we don't know the other markings but in our old 70's intelligence book of markings, I is Ishapore. Mind you, the booklet has been wrong in the past, but only once......... and that was in respect of the RNG mark
the stamp says RIF not RFI, isn't that stamp so odd as to be unusual? I would have thought that RFI was a one piece stamp ie not possible to mix up the letters, and that RIF is a bit odder than average, something interesting there or not? Could RIF be something quite different? Even the font isn't like other RFI's I've seen.
Can we have some pics that show the right side, and the whole rifle? thanks
It is rather unusual. If it weren't for the very clear photo, I wouldn't have given it a second glance. But it almost looks like a Kyber pass marking rather than the usual Indian rework mark. I've had a great heap of Indian rifle remnants (swapped a bunch of M60 parts for 'em on one of my stupider days) and that's just weird.
Both these Mark 1** IP rifles were upgraded, the Enfield in 1914 and the BSA in 1917. New barrels were also installed and numbered to the action body, note the rebuild stamp on the other side.
I have a 1917 Ishapore Mk.III* with the same mark dated 1923. The only difference is that the Broad Arrow is centered between the R and F with the I below it. It's the Ishapore FTR mark of the inter war era.
Those I've seen, or very close. (Broadarrow displacing the "I" downwards.) Chris.gsr's "RIF" is in a straight line. Transitory or just a "goof"?Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
Nothing to lose sleep over, but I just don't remember seeing another, which is a good thing!
Ok guys. Here are some more photos of the other markings.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG2992-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG2996-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG2999-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG3000-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG3001-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG3002-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG3003-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMAG2997-1.jpg
I absolutely agree that "RFI" is Rifle Factory Ishapore, Peter. What I said was that the mark in question was "RF" for "Rifle Factory" with the letters on either side of an "I" surmounted by a Broad Arrow, which was the Indian government ownership mark.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I have a rifle that is similarly marked for 1925. The "RFI" mark for refurbishment did not come into use until later.
REgards
TonyE
Are we saying that RFI is Rifle Factory Ishapore but RIF (with W-D arrow above I) is Rifle Factory India?
Yes, I am saying that RFI is Rifle Factory Ishapore, but that the other mark is "RF" for "Rifle Factory" and the "Broad Arrow over I" is not for Ishapore but is the Indian ownership mark.
All the Dominions had their individual government ownership marks. Canada was a Broad Arrow within C, South Africa was a Broad Arrow within U, India was a Broad Arrow over I. It is just a coincidence that the Indian rifle factory began with the letter "I", the same as India.
I will try to find the formal introduction from 1896.
Regards
Tony
I had a quick look but could not find the general introduction, but I did find this List of Change paragraph showing the ownership mark to be applied to .45 inch machine Gun ammunition made for India.
Regards
TonyE
The "Arrow over I" mark for Indian gov't ownership also appears on bladed weapons. I have a P'85 cavalry sword so marked.
I have a Pattern 1903 Sht L.E. sword bayonet that is marked "RFI" on the butt of the hilt. This is a conversion of a P1888 Wilkinson blade. The date 1903 is re-struck and under the Crown & above "Wilkinson". The opposite side of the blade is marked with an "X", a WD with a Broad Arrow, a W inspector stamp, a small "I" with a Broad Arrow above it, and a small 1G over a 7. The use of "RFI", at least on bayonet conversions, goes back at least to 1903.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyE