1935 Lithgow MkIII

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05-20-2012, 01:35 AM
5thBatt

1935 Lithgow MkIII

Picked this up at an auction today:D
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lithgow1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lithgow2-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ithgow10-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lithgow3-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lithgow4-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lithgow5-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lithgow6-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lithgow7-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lithgow8-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lithgow9-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ithgow11-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ithgow12-1.jpg
05-20-2012, 01:38 AM
jb303

Very nice old girl, where did you find this beauty.

jb303
05-20-2012, 01:45 AM
5thBatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb303

Very nice old girl, where did you find this beauty.

jb303

Ted Rodgers Militaria auction, held in Wellington NZ yesterday & today.
Had to compete with a bidder from Australia, was that you??
05-20-2012, 04:44 AM
jb303

No buddy,

I was out buying a 1916 HT Sniper on Saturday. High mount with its original carry case for the scope. will post pics soon as i pick it up, just waiting for the PTA.
05-20-2012, 06:15 AM
tbonesmith

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb303

I was out buying a 1916 HT Sniper on Saturday. High mount with its original carry case for the scope. will post pics soon as i pick it up, just waiting for the PTA.

Was that out at Penrith, I heard there were a bunch of No4T's there at big prices.
05-20-2012, 05:07 PM
RJW NZ

Awesome discovery there, having that steel connection/brace between the locking plate and the recoil lug face, never seen one up close, and never ever on a non target rifle, any chance of a pic of the plate with the two legs out of the wood? This is a mod thats coming up on a project rifle but the logics need a few tweeks yet.
05-20-2012, 05:48 PM
Homer

It's a very nice rifle mate and It's very hard to find these 30's dated lithgows in any condition let alone completely matching. The majority of 35 dated actions I've seen were assembled in 1940 so the pin and plate design is not always found in 1935 lithgows.

Congratulations for acquiring this rare gun.

5th if you don't have a photo of the recoil pins for RJW NZ, I have one in my files.
05-20-2012, 06:19 PM
5thBatt

Homer, if you could that would be great, i will post the pic from the 35 cutaway as well tonite when i'm home.
05-20-2012, 09:36 PM
RJW NZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homer

It's a very nice rifle mate and It's very hard to find these 30's dated lithgows in any condition let alone completely matching. The majority of 35 dated actions I've seen were assembled in 1940 so the pin and plate design is not always found in 1935 lithgows.

Congratulations for acquiring this rare gun.

5th if you don't have a photo of the recoil pins for RJW NZ, I have one in my files.

Hi Homer, can you enlarge on this? Were the pin and plates installed stock on enfields? when and where etc, very interesting.
05-20-2012, 09:43 PM
5thBatt

They were fitted to production rifles by Lithgow around 1935 but it was short lived & so quite rare.
05-21-2012, 12:55 AM
jb303

Yes mate, I was out at Penrith, I was very lucky to get the HT, the No 4's were priced at $6k to $6500, they were in very good order.

cheers

John
05-21-2012, 02:38 AM
5thBatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJW NZ

Awesome discovery there, having that steel connection/brace between the locking plate and the recoil lug face, never seen one up close, and never ever on a non target rifle, any chance of a pic of the plate with the two legs out of the wood? This is a mod thats coming up on a project rifle but the logics need a few tweeks yet.

Had the rifle at work today, couldn't get the plate out but here is the photo of my other 1935 Lithgow
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ctioned4-1.jpg
05-21-2012, 02:40 AM
jb303

nice..
05-21-2012, 08:02 AM
Homer

1 Attachment(s)

This is what it looks like removed from the forend.
05-21-2012, 09:05 AM
Peter Laidler

I can see that the mechanism is another means to achieve an end but is it a commercial means of tightening up the fore-end to achieve greater accuracy or a military idea to save patching the draws? Any Military input at all?

Just another Q following on from RJW (#16 below.....). Are the rods adjustable in any way? It doesn't look like it but by definition they MUST be due to the fact that every rifle is slightly different - that's why we have to FIT a fore-end!
05-22-2012, 06:21 AM
RJW NZ

I like what I see, although it could be upgraded to really do the job, overall, a must try for the target shooter, otherwise I'm with Peter's question, inquiring minds need to know.
05-22-2012, 03:47 PM
5thBatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

I can see that the mechanism is another means to achieve an end but is it a commercial means of tightening up the fore-end to achieve greater accuracy or a military idea to save patching the draws? Any Military input at all?

Just another Q following on from RJW (#16 below.....). Are the rods adjustable in any way? It doesn't look like it but by definition they MUST be due to the fact that every rifle is slightly different - that's why we have to FIT a fore-end!

No adjustment on them, i would think they have to be fitted.
The answer to your Q "is it a commercial means of tightening up the fore-end to achieve greater accuracy or a military idea to save patching the draws? " would be the same as for the copper blocks or the walnut inserts Lithgow also used.
05-22-2012, 06:31 PM
muffett.2008

I do remember seeing the patent for this while searching for something else, didn't dowload it though, had no interest at the time.

(Seeking Omark/Sportco M44 serial No.'s.)
05-23-2012, 04:39 AM
RJW NZ

If they were on a thread, and holes drilled through the wrist face, they could be tightened up, forcing the locking plate back against the wrist face, thus making a tightly fitted corner brace in that wrist/receiver angle. Logically speaking it should be an improvement in accuracy for target shooters, a good idea to test at the range (the place where logical ideas often fail, lol).
05-23-2012, 04:48 AM
paulseamus

Lithgow production figures from Skennerton:

"1934/35 500"
"1935/36 1,141"

Either way a rare rifle.

Paul
05-23-2012, 07:04 AM
5thBatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulseamus

Lithgow production figures from Skennerton:

"1934/35 500"
"1935/36 1,141"

Either way a rare rifle.

Paul

Yeah, i put it in the 1935/36 production.
05-23-2012, 07:17 AM
Homer

And of those 1141 rifles many could be much earlier dated actions. The fogures are not an accurate indicator for actions dated to that year
05-23-2012, 08:07 PM
Rowdy

Do any of the experts here know for how long Lithgow used this system?
It would seem to me to be pretty useless as the wood could still slide up the rods - the
tie block at the back is only a press fit in the timber.
05-23-2012, 08:27 PM
5thBatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowdy

Do any of the experts here know for how long Lithgow used this system?
It would seem to me to be pretty useless as the wood could still slide up the rods - the
tie block at the back is only a press fit in the timber.

Not for long from what I understand, personly i think it was useless as the rods dont contact square-on but off to one-side & can see them spreading, i wont be firing this one either, so thats two 1935 Lithgows & well over 4k spent on rifles i'll never fire.
05-23-2012, 11:10 PM
Homer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowdy

Do any of the experts here know for how long Lithgow used this system?
It would seem to me to be pretty useless as the wood could still slide up the rods - the
tie block at the back is only a press fit in the timber.

No expert here but I would think its unique to rifles assembled in 1935/36. Haven't seen e lithgow assembled in 1937 so so there is a black hole. Ian skennerton mentions this time frame also. I wonder if his conclusion is from factory records or observation. I would think this design was ineffective hence the short lived practice.
05-23-2012, 11:24 PM
5thBatt

There was a sporterized '37 in the same auction but had a '41 dated butt, was going to have a go at getting that one as well but my budget was blown.
05-23-2012, 11:41 PM
Homer

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5thBatt

There was a sporterized '37 in the same auction but had a '41 dated butt, was going to have a go at getting that one as well but my budget was blown.

My 37 is assembled in 1940. What did it sell for?
05-24-2012, 12:35 AM
5thBatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homer

My 37 is assembled in 1940. What did it sell for?

Think it was $90 will check tonight.
05-24-2012, 12:44 AM
Homer

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5thBatt

Think it was $90 will check tonight.

Mate I would have bought that. They are so rare in any condition
05-24-2012, 02:23 AM
5thBatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homer

Mate I would have bought that. They are so rare in any condition

You would have definitely brought it for $75 then!
I wouldn't have been able to afford it, was out of there before it came up & it would have gone for more than $75 if i was bidding.