Photos of original FG42

Good morning:
There really isn't a forum for miscellaneous military rifles, nor is there one for machine guns like Maxims, Lewis, etc, so this has been put in General Discussion. I've had some surgery on my knee, so am at loose ends today, and thought I would take apart my FG42 to clean it. While doing so, I took some photos, which I hope others will enjoy. Being in Canada, and too young to own machine guns, this one is a CA. No, I didn't do the conversion; it was done several years ago. While I'm glad it was done so that I can own this piece, I wish in many ways it hadn't been done as it changes the gun.

The unit is matching, and all original, except the magazine, which is a modern repro stamped "Made in Japan" and while the hold open works, the mag doesn't lock into place. I would love to find an original mag somewhere, or maybe one of those mags for the repro FG42s being brought in might fit.

Typical of later war German weapons, this one is quite modular, and snaps together and apart quite easily. I would think it would have been rather ungainly to shoot, especially with a full magazine hanging off one side, but reportedly, recoil was fairly minimal because of the straight in line design. Like all light autos, I believe they tended to "climb" when on full auto. However, I would think one would only use the full auto function when doing support fire, which would probably be on the ground with bipod mounted anyway. The bayonet is kind of laughable, but no more so than the French MAS.

I have not shot this rifle, and while I would love to, probably never will as if something happened to it, I would feel terrible.

I haven't labelled the photos; the sequence is fairly self-explanatory.

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Ed

Very nice. Very comprehensive set of photos. I don't recall this one being done here before. I see a couple of parts they specifically copied for the M60.

YEs, there are a few modern firearms which seem to owe some parts to the FG42. I should really make up a Knowledge Library entry for it I suppose, although some of our members down in the US likely have more "original" examples than I do--mine has had the selector switch removed and that part welded over, so it is not really as it was in 1944 anymore. Still, in all, a rare rifle and really neat to hold. When I look at it, I wonder where it served, who carried it, what happened to him, who it passed to, etc. Was it in action in Normandy against our troops, in Italy against our troops (maybe at Cassino), or ? This history of these pieces is what I love the most.

Ed

As a fellow Canadian, I have to cry and cheer at the same time. Cry because of the transport laws, but cheer that such a CA exists in private hands.

Great picks can i keep some? I will title them to you. But maybe you don't want that? In school in the 60's they had a rifle that looked like the FG but had the MG42 feed cover on one side. They also had the FG We had a lot of burring in the cam groves in '66/'67 bolt and operating rod. Also the grip retaining clip was a direct copy and we added a special training memo. In the field I had no problems with the grip lock until after Tet in 1968 when replacements had no training. The old crew never had to replace the trigger sear. Clean off and on. The new people could destroy a sear in one range day. It was a direct copy of the FG42 carrier/striker fired system.

Thank you again.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...f17f6432-1.jpg

M60MG copy, yes a of this rifle. The the US Army got it wrong. Should have simply copied and fielded the MG42 in 7.62mm. But instead the US Army fielded a poor MG that was expensive and prone to quick wear. Oh, well.

I had a lot of gauling at the bolt and op-rod lug cam slot and the lug it self. Most of the guns would be cleand off all grease because of the red dust collecting there by the troops so the guns were run dry on the roads. Even static guns on parimiter duty that had grease showed gauling. Every few thousand rounds I would have to stone these areas. I have neve seen the problem on pictures of the FG42 parts. Looking back I think there must have been aproduction problem inheat treating or material selection from the start. By mid '68 I was able to rotate half my M60's to the next level of repair shops that had opened in Pleiku for an upgrade. The came back with white bolts and we received a new lube you could squirt into a hot gun when it started to slow down.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...a501f781-1.jpg

I have some ZB-26 magazines that work in the new semi only USA made FG42 copies. What do you use in Canada for magazines?

Cheers
..MJ..

Which factory made them? Looks like a real tough rifle to produce in quantity. I realize not many made, but where did they end up after the war? Very seldom seen today. Very nice photo spread. Thank you.

May be of interest, I guess this guy saves up to buy enough ammo to shoot it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISKnl1OnI9Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPq6Y...eature=related

This is what we have down here in the U.S. the Smg42 clone of the FG42 and yes I have one.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5/fg3002-1.jpg

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HDH.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MJ1

I have some ZB-26 magazines that work in the new semi only USA made FG42 copies. What do you use in Canada for magazines?

Cheers
..MJ..

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Hmm, that's a thought. I have a Dewat Czech ZB30J in 7 x 57, but the mags are the same as the 8mm. I will try one of them--if it fit, that would be a good way to go. I was thinking of maybe trying to get one of the repro mags out of the US, but the problem is these stupid stupid STUPID mag size restrictions, so I would have to get the mag pinned beforeit hit the border. Hmmm.....

Ed

---------- Post added at 08:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 PM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hansellhd

This is what we have down here in the U.S. the Smg42 clone of the FG42 and yes I have one.

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Do you like it? I was in contact with SMG the other day about their replica--I am quite drawn to the .308. 8mm Mauser is a bag to get, but one can still get .308 surplus fairly easily. Yes, it isn't the original calibre, but on the other hand, the gun itself is a replica, so it makes sense to get something which could be shot. Is the quality good? They look nice. Plus, being as how they're manufactured in semi-auto only, there shouldn't be a problem getting one into CAnada I wouldn't think. Is that a replica StG44 next to your FG, or is it an original? Very nice collection!

Ed

I love it when it goes photolistic!!!

Thank you for sharing gents.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ef93312c-1.jpg

MJ1, that's a beautiful photo! The profile looks like a Spitfire maybe? Where was that taken?

Ed

I was on the verge of getting one of the semi-FG42s, but also have held off. Waiting for reliability reports. Not an easy thing to make semi-only AND reliable. Esp. with the bolt above the piston and all. The semi-only M60s I've seen inside were quite wretched. A friend had one type in his shop, trying to get it to run for ages. Finally, in a rare move, he just hollered "Uncle!" and gave up.

hza-kulmbach.de - BD 42/II

Company here in Germany makes both types. Very expensive! There was a setback when his first production batch went to America and no payment was received.

BEAUTIFUL photo MJ............. words fail me. You couldn't invent a photo like that!

We have an FG42 at work with the really sharp rake angled piston grip, They have one or two at Shrivenham and we shoot them alternately but not too often I hasten to add. The magazine catch on ours snapped across the axis pin hole so I asked the German manufacturer of repos for a spare to try. And it fitted perfectly and worked and held the magazines securely after one or two strokes with an oil stone

One of the Kulmbach copies was tested then taken apart and analysed here. There were one or two very minor faults with the semi auto version we had but a covering report went back detailing how it could be quickly, cheaply and easily solved.

Good thread and thanks for that photo MJ. Made my evening...............

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Originally Posted by boltaction

Hmm, that's a thought. I have a Dewat Czech ZB30J in 7 x 57, but the mags are the same as the 8mm. I will try one of them--if it fit, that would be a good way to go. I was thinking of maybe trying to get one of the repro mags out of the US, but the problem is these stupid stupid STUPID mag size restrictions, so I would have to get the mag pinned beforeit hit the border. Hmmm.....

Ed

---------- Post added at 08:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 PM ----------



Do you like it? I was in contact with SMG the other day about their replica--I am quite drawn to the .308. 8mm Mauser is a bag to get, but one can still get .308 surplus fairly easily. Yes, it isn't the original calibre, but on the other hand, the gun itself is a replica, so it makes sense to get something which could be shot. Is the quality good? They look nice. Plus, being as how they're manufactured in semi-auto only, there shouldn't be a problem getting one into CAnada I wouldn't think. Is that a replica StG44 next to your FG, or is it an original? Very nice collection!

Ed

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Yes I do like the SMG42 but it was having some FTF issues and I had to send it back to SMGGUNS in TX. to work on it, I hope to have it back some time next week.

The other Rifle is a PTR44 SSD clone of the MP44, I have had issues with that rifle as well. First thing is the 2 mags that came with it were defective, then after 2 years the OP-rod/Carrier Broke and I had to replace it with an original from a MP44 all is well now but it was a pain in the A$$ trying to get it repaired.

HDH.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by villiers

hza-kulmbach.de - BD 42/II

Company here in Germany makes both types. Very expensive! There was a setback when his first production batch went to America and no payment was received.

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Yes I hope that their FG42 Clone performs better that their MP44 clone, this is what happened to my BD44 (PTR44 in the US)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...05/bb001-1.jpg
I found a replacement carrier in Poland and had a gun smith fit it to the SSD bolt
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I understand the heat treatment unfortunately was faulty on these. others in the US have had similar problems. I spent $4300.00 on this rifle and I did expect better, Tryed to contact Kulmbach for spare parts and never herd a thing. Be assured I will never purchase anything from this Co. ever again not that I cud because they have no presents in the US at this point and hopefully never will! :banghead:

HDH.

Awesome rifle and great pics!

I have an original FG42 bayonet of the third type, like yours. I always assumed that it once had a cap over the end, but see that yours does not either. The only markings are on the little rocker ends. By any chance, can you make out the markings on your bayonet? Mine has a "2" on one rocker and a partial that looks like three letters (possibly "agv") on the other. I would be very interested to compare the markings on yours, if you would be so kind to share.

This has been an interesting post.

Peter I have a soft spot for that aircraft, if something ever just looked so right it had to be so very good. It has been my computer screen background for some time. :thup:

Beer Run

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ab8b6640-1.jpg
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My contribution.
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The Spit was a beauty Queen but the Fw190 would eat it for lunch. ;)

Are there any flying FW 190's still in existance? Is that a flying example or just an old colour photo Hansel?

Back to the FG42 thing though. I'm suprised how comfortable and ergonomic the swept back pistol grip really is. While it LOOKS wierd, it is in fact very practical

There ought to be at least one Dora FW190 that's flyable (or could be made so) out there. It was at Georgia Tech in the early '60s and sold to a fellow I knew. He turned it pretty quickly for the princely sum of US$40,000...!!! He only made about tenfold, but anymore?

Engines are pretty scarce.

I wonder if they still run up the Ki100's engine at the IWM any more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hansellhd

Yes I do like the SMG42 but it was having some FTF issues and I had to send it back to SMGGUNS in TX. to work on it, I hope to have it back some time next week.

The other Rifle is a PTR44 SSD clone of the MP44, I have had issues with that rifle as well. First thing is the 2 mags that came with it were defective, then after 2 years the OP-rod/Carrier Broke and I had to replace it with an original from a MP44 all is well now but it was a pain in the A$$ trying to get it repaired.

HDH.

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So is "SMGGUNS in TX" the company that imported a batch from the German makers? Or do they make their own replica?

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Originally Posted by marysdad

Awesome rifle and great pics!

I have an original FG42 bayonet of the third type, like yours. I always assumed that it once had a cap over the end, but see that yours does not either. The only markings are on the little rocker ends. By any chance, can you make out the markings on your bayonet? Mine has a "2" on one rocker and a partial that looks like three letters (possibly "agv") on the other. I would be very interested to compare the markings on yours, if you would be so kind to share.

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Here are some photos of my bayonet. The only markings on it are on the two push buttons. One is a 2, the other is a three letter code which looks to me like a gcy or maybe gty or guy. I took a photo using a magnifying glass and shooting through the magnifying glass, which actually worked not too badly. According to Michael Heidler's excellent book on German Ordnance Codes, "gcy" was L.O. Dietrich, "Vesta" Nahmaschinenwerke in Altenberg, known to manufacture components of MG 81, HFW, and Bayonets. "gty" is a less likely option, while "guy" is Werkzeugmaschinenfabrik Oerlikon, Buhrle & Co, known to make automatic weapons (Oerlikons) and bayonet parts...........

Yours you say has an "agv" on it. agv was code for Berg & Co, in Solingen/Ohligs, listed as making S84/98 bayonets from 1941-44, so definitely a possibility. It would seem that maybe there were two manufacturers for these bayonets.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...12/05/55-2.jpg

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Ed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by villiers

So is "SMGGUNS in TX" the company that imported a batch from the German makers? Or do they make their own replica?

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They make there own in Texas.

SMG Guns | Semi Auto FG42 Project!

Thanks so much Ed!

I see that your bayonet does have an end cap. Our two bayonets are identically-marked.

The partial mark on your bayonet was the lower portion and the partial mark on my bayonet was the upper portion. When I superimposed the two, it is clearly "gcy". Dietrich was not a maker of bayonets for the Kar 98k rifles, so if they are a documented maker of bayonets, these bayonets may be what the that references. I have Walter's earlier book on the Letter Codes, which doesn't mention bayonets among items manufactured by Dietrich.

Readers should note that our photographs are deceptive as to just how tiny this marking is. The surface on which the three letters are stamped measures 3 mm. high by 5 mm. wide. The pink rectangle in the image below serves to illustrate the actual size of the flat upon which the marking is stamped.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._42_mark-1.jpg

Good phrase there Marysdad. We use a slightly different variation that goes
'...... there's usually a very simple explanation that most laymen can give an answer to but there's always a more sophisticated explanation that the so called experts huff and puff about.

Have a nice rest of the day

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Are there any flying FW 190's still in existance?

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This is the only recently flown FW 190 I can think of with an original BMW 801 engine: Focke-Wulf Fw 190 A-5 : The Flying Heritage Collection

There are some replicas out there made by a company caled Flugwerk with other engine types that have flown as well.

Jmoore, I'm pretty sure this is the FW 190D-13 you are refering to that was formerly owned by Georgia Tech: Focke-Wulf Fw 190D-13 (Dora) : The Flying Heritage Collection

If the FHC's P40C was formerly Steven Grey's (which it sounds like it is) it lost a lot of it's good handling when the wings were rebuilt (in the US- the fuselage remained in England where it was rebuilt using some of our parts) without using jigs. (And new leading edge formers that were poorly formed.) After a few test flights it was unloaded pretty quickly!

Wife can still pull a few strings and get classics at her show.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...b0a7839a-1.jpg

Nice Corsair MJ1, is that a Howard 500 behind it by any chance?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by boltaction

Hmm, that's a thought. I have a Dewat Czech ZB30J in 7 x 57, but the mags are the same as the 8mm. I will try one of them--if it fit, that would be a good way to go. I was thinking of maybe trying to get one of the repro mags out of the US, but the problem is these stupid stupid STUPID mag size restrictions, so I would have to get the mag pinned beforeit hit the border. Hmmm.....

Ed

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Any test results you care to share FG42 and ZB magazines? I sent you a PM about retail original FG42 magazines in Canada. He says he has "a few".

Five year wait, but got one home this weekend. Fired one round per magazine to check function and ease of operation at the range, but it was late and the usual weekend crowd was about. So further wringing out will be delayed a bit.


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ehilhzk3-1.jpg


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I can think of no other rifle that requires as much strength to operate! It's a beast to run. The charging handle requires lots of poundage to get going. And the lack of a bolt stop other than the follower itself means considerable wrestling to do mag swaps. (The semi-auto Bren rebuilds aren't too different (not including mag changes), but not many folk aside from me seem to make a habit of firing them offhand, and the Bren in original form doesn't have near as heavy cocking force. But the FG may have had stout spring from the get-go.)


Weight is just under 12lbs (11# 13oz w/o mag). Heavyish for a semiauto rifle, but very light for a select fire weapon with so much power.


Closest equivalent at hand is an 18 1/2" barreled M1a in a Sage stock:


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...yjrhvgrz-1.jpg
Only about 2 ounces difference between these two.

Need to do a pull apart and see where the new and original differ. Seemed like this might be a good thread in which to do so.

A friend of mine has one of these in Canada and says it has a couple of extractor issues...don't know, we'll have a look when he brings it to shoot. He pointed out it cost him about 10 grand here in Canada after the dust settled...

That would be hard to beat for "cool factor" without a class III. Anixiously awaiting "wring out" pictures & results.

photo show a FG 42 with a MG 42 feed mechanism attached to the side. I believe this is an ordnance photoAttachment 60162

That was out of Aberdeen I'm guessing?

You have to give the German engineers full marks for some of the designs they came up with. Of course, some deserved a war crimes trial and death sentence for other 'pearls of wisdom' they created.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RCS

photo show a FG 42 with a MG 42 feed mechanism attached to the side. I believe this is an ordnance photoAttachment 60162

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Seems like what MJ1 was describing earlier in the thread (Post #5).

Have just been reading an article in a German paper about HOME. Dittrich is well known here for his painstaking reproductions of WWII weaponry, and his persistence in obtaining the requisite permission from the Federal German authorities for private ownership. A part of his first production batch was exported to U.S.A. But, although his FG42s and `44s were still being advertised by the importing company, payment was not forthcoming. Dittrich went through a difficult patch, narrowly avoiding bankruptcy and having to fire his twelve empoyees. Apparently, although it is comparatively easy for US citizens to take EU citizens to court, the opposite is practically impossible. So, I would not be surprised if weapons obtained within that original delivery are still being sold, and maybe even cloned in the US. If so, I can only hope that they are defective and cause maximum havoc.

Dunno where the Dittrich parts went, but the folk who started the US FG42 project went belly up. The current production is now SMG in Texas. I think they bought some of the failed startup's property, but somehow think weren't able to use much.

.... the wages of sin ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by villiers

Have just been reading an article in a German paper about HOME. Dittrich is well known here for his painstaking reproductions of WWII weaponry, and his persistence in obtaining the requisite permission from the Federal German authorities for private ownership. A part of his first production batch was exported to U.S.A. But, although his FG42s and `44s were still being advertised by the importing company, payment was not forthcoming. Dittrich went through a difficult patch, narrowly avoiding bankruptcy and having to fire his twelve empoyees. Apparently, although it is comparatively easy for US citizens to take EU citizens to court, the opposite is practically impossible. So, I would not be surprised if weapons obtained within that original delivery are still being sold, and maybe even cloned in the US. If so, I can only hope that they are defective and cause maximum havoc.

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I wouldn't worry about the non-payment, as the guns we've seen have been defective...sometimes in several ways.

I worked on a BD-FG42 until it exceeded my capabilities, and my gunsmith has worked on several BD44s (mostly extractor issues IIRC).

The BD42 firing pin was not concentrically round from the shaft to the bearing surface, so as it shifted in rotation within the piston carrier it would bind in the firing pin channel of the bolt.

The sear & trigger parts were not properly hardened.

The trigger housing flexed enough that it interfered with the free working of the trigger mechanism.

The barrel was not torqued up to the receiver, and the locking taper pin was undersize (the barrel "flopped" when the handguards were removed).

The front sight block came off, and took the bayonet with it (lost in the snow)...

and that's just the issues that I can remember off the top of my head....

Under the circumstances ... I sincerely doubt whether Dittrich would be prepared to consider repairing the U/S parts! :mad:But people in clubs in the vicinity with Dittrich products seem to get on quite well with them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by villiers

Under the circumstances ... I sincerely doubt whether Dittrich would be prepared to consider repairing the U/S parts! :mad:But people in clubs in the vicinity with Dittrich products seem to get on quite well with them.

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In my "not so humble opinion", that many issues is not a coincidence. It was a case of solve 1 problem, and find another....or 2.

As several people pointed out, the SSD guns were (pretty obviously) not meant for live fire of more than blanks for reinactors.


I'm not in the US and I'm sure our importers paid him, although they did mention the unavailability of repair parts for the guns which were returned to them...and the people who attempted to contact SSD themselves didn't have a lot of success either.