whats a stacking swivel for?
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whats a stacking swivel for?
Its for stacking multiple rifles together by hooking stacking swivels together I think.
You are correct. Piling swivels are for "piling rifles". If you search around here, you'll see demonstrations of it.
Today's picture of the day from SNAFU:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/05/DS4-1.jpg
The early M1 rifle stacking swivel also had the drawing number which was deleted soon
after production started. The stacking swivel was not used on the M14
Way back in the day, I found a numbered swivel at a show and figured they must be common. When Burt K needed one, I gave it to him... and searched for 20 years for another :(
I have seen stacking swivels sell from $250 to $600 (with drawing number) surprised the fakers have moved on this ?
Why, those are Krags...
And terribly sloppy... you don't hang gear on rifle stacks!
Snr NCO's sort the troops out...
Jim, I must admit that I had never heard the term " piling swivel" used for the stacking swivel on the M1 Rifle. Not saying it is not used, just that I never heard it used in the 56 years I have been associated with the M1 rifle. In fact, I must also admit I had to get out the dictionary to see what the word meant. "Piling - a structure of piles" ??? Think i will just stick with "stacking swivel".
Attachment 34113Attachment 34114
Joe, My Lee Enfield Mark 1*** has a piling swivel and my Springfield 1903A1 has a stacking swivel. The ram rod bayonet 1903 has a special stacking swivel that is different
I've heard and seen both terms in print and thought the US term was piling. Maybe I'm wrong. I just checked one source and it's showing the Krag's STACKING swivel...But then in Skennerton's book on the US Enfield, it refers to part #72 which is the PILING swivel. (276 Cal) I guess the point is I shouldn't be correcting anyone, as both appear to be widly used.
I think "piling" is more British and Commonwealth. "Stacking" is more US. Which term the Canadians prefer I would have thought to be "piling".
We don't use the term. Haven't had the swivel since the SMLE.
I guess the first thing I should have done was 'Googled" it.
" What's a piling swivel?
A piling swivel (called a stacking swivel in the United States, or Aufstellbügel in Germany) is a metal, C-shaped bracket, mounted on the nosecap toward the end of a rifle barrel, just behind the bayonet mount" Piling Swivel FAQ
What, no stacking swivels on the C8s? Good grief, man, how do you ever manage?Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Could you imagine? You'd grab yours on the run and they'd all come along...
I guess it seemed like a good idea at the time...:D
So, thinking about it, it would seem that piling swivels came along about when bayonets were no longer semi-permanently attatched features of the military long arm, yes? Or did something else make this feature desirable?
I think piling swivels came about when rifles got shorter and the socket bayonet fell out of favour.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsimmons
Shorter hadn't occurred to me. Why would that make a difference?
So here's a quiz: What's the earliest military use of the stacking swivel? And I don't have the answer! Seems to me that in the US, one of the trapdoor rifles may have been first. Don't think it was the M1866. Can't remember if my M1868 has one or not.
If I recall didn't the model 1888 with the rod bayonet have a double swivel on the upper band?
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I'm pretty sure they do. But trapdoors are definitely NOT my forte. Can't keep one (in 45-70) for any length of time. THe various 50-70s and the 1865 model are interesting as transitional weapons from muzzleloading to breechloading, But the 1873 was obsolete when adopted, or close enough. But trapdoor fans won't like me for saying it. Good rifle, but it just shouldn't have been used any length of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsimmons
At any rate, I'm coming up blank on what first used the split swivel for "camping" purposes.
But no surprise, it's been busy!
Not sure when stacking swivels appeared but this is a Mathew Brady photograph taken at Petersburg Va. using the bayonet to stack rifles.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...iarifles-1.jpg
Yes, the end of the muzzle loading era (and slow reloads) meant the end of the "convienence" of using the bayonet as a stacking device. But who had the bright idea of adding the swivel?
Not the French:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7b5ac8e1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...a72d179f-1.jpg
Even through the 1880 modification of the 1866 Gras.
They did adopt a stud thing, but not a swivel.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff026-1.jpg
After searching internet the best I can do is find reference to the stacking swivel being attached to the barrel band of the 1873 trapdoor carbine.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ngswivel-1.jpg
********************* See # 10 ********************************
Model 1873 Rifle & Carbine
The following information is taken from: Desription and Rules for the Management of the Springfield Rifle, Carbine and Army Revolver, 1874.
During the year 1873, the Board of Officers appointed in pursuance of the "Act of Congress, - approved June 6, 1872 - for the purpose of selecting a breech system for the military service of the United States," reported in favor of the "Springfield" system. The minor details as to the caliber, form of chamber, ammunition, etc., were also determined by a Board of Ordnance Officers convened for that purpose. In the following pages will be found a full description of this system in all its details, as adopted by the War Department. The Springfield Rifle, Carbine .45", is essentually similar to the "Springfield Musket, Model 1870," which for some time past has been in the hands of troops for trial. The following changes have been made:
1st. The barrel has been made of low steel instead of iron, and the caliber has been reduced from .50" to .45". The rifling consists of three plain concentric grooves equal in width to the lands, .005" deep, with a uniform twist of one turn in twenty-two inches.
2nd. The lock plate has been reduced in thickness, and has no bevel on the edge.
3rd. A rounder shape has been given to the hammer.
4th. The heads of the tang screw, tumbler screw and side screws have been rounded off, and the side screws have been slightly shortened.
5th. A screw has been substituted for the rivet of the guard bow swivel.
6th. The shape of the rear sight has been changed, and it has been set further forward on the barrel.
7th. The metal parts of the rifle have been browned or blackened.
8th. The stock has been rounded off near the lock plate, and on its upper edges, as far forward as the lower band.
9th. A number of cannelures have been cut near the small end of the ramrod, in order to give a better grip to the fingers in using it.
************************************************** ************************************************** ***************************************
10th. The shape of the upper band and of the gun sling swivel have been changed, and an open or stacking swivel has been added for the purpose of stacking arms without using the bayonet.
************************************************** ************************************************** ****************************************
The changes in the carbine follow those above indicated in the description of the rifle.
I did a bit of looking in Flayderman's today, and the first mention that I found was concerning the 1873 Cadet rifle. Oddly, no mention of a stacking swivel on either the standard rifle or carbine.
When I was in High School ROTC we had to stack the M1's three to a stack. If one of the Officers Kicked your stack and it fell over, you were doing Push Ups the rest of the class.Generally speaking done properly they were pretty tightly locked together. On Asphalt and Concrete they would slide and not fall over.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Model 1873 Springfield with the sling swivel and stacking swivel on the same band.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6/a15udz-1.jpg
I'm the Sgt At Arms of the local American Legion post--we were waiting for a funeral to arrive at a cemetery, and I did a stack arms with the Honor Guard M1s, when the hearse was late. Amazed the younger troops....geezer still remembers SOMETHING. Where's my coffee mug??