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Hello all,
Needing some info on a 1903A1 made in 1931
As far as I can tell its an all original rifle. It has:
1931 serial # (1.36 M)
1931 dated SA barrel w/flaming bomb
early S stock with correct 1931 stock cartouche, S.A. SPG , and circle P
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...saspg03s-1.jpg
It looks to be an original early A1 that was never rebuilt as its wearing an early S stock.
I'll get some photos up but assuming a 90-95% rifle, any guess on value?
Thanks
if its in an S stock, then its a standard 1903. and not a 1903A1..
Ok, then it must have an originally fitted C stock to be an A1?
I am new to '03's - I assumed all post 1929 rifles with a nickel steel receiver were considered A1's.
This rifle is dated 1931 per the barrel/reciever - this matches with the timeline on the S stock cartouche. It shows SPG - the stamp of Stanley P. Gibbs, who worked at Springfield Armory from 1916 to 1951. He became a small arms inspector in 1931.
So this is either a late 03' with a nickel steel reciever or an early A1 with a leftover S stock?
No, the c-stock is what makes it an A1. It's just a 1903 with the s-stock. Now if you were to install a c-stock on it it would become an A1.
without digging out the hornets nest...to be a true A1, it would have had to been sold as such,. if you post the serial number ill check my list.
then no matter what stock its in or what it looks like, it will be a 1903A1
Does anyone know how many C stocks SA made before WWII? Lots of late made '03's show up in S stocks. I have no idea how many C stocks were actually made before the war.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P5240280-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P5240281-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P5240284-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P5240282-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P5240285-1.jpg
ok there she is
I found this SPG cartouche info searching A1's:
"S/N 1,369,761? - 1,548,601 1931? - 1939
This is the stamp of Mr. Stanley P. Gibbs, who worked at Springfield Armory from 1916 to 1951.
He became a small arms inspector in the early 1930's. The exact date is unknown.
The earliest rifle encountered that I know of is in the 1,436,000 range with a barrel date of August, 1933.
I have listed the starting 1931 year number of 1,369,761 as the start of his inspections. If anyone has more accurate information, please send it."
If thats the case this 1931 rifle predates his earliest SPG cartouched example by 7000 units.
The unit numbers on the buttstock are interesting - appreciate if anyone can provide info
no hit in the DCM sales list. maybe SRS?
what bolt does it have in it?
I just pulled it out and its a BF code which shows 1940-41.......so the bolt is not original
The reciever, barrel, and stock are all 1931 - my biggest question is how did it not get rebuilt in WW11 (later barrel and C stock).
I have seen a ton of early 1903's wearing WW11 dated barrels, it seems odd this example could get thru WW11 with its 1931 tube?
If it was a Navy rifle it might have sat in a rack on a ship for most of the war, no real way to know without an SRS hit or other documentation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalfort
Dalfort,
Not to also start a hornet's nest, but curious why you show a "reproduction" stamp for the SA/SPG and the "circle P" in yout initial post. I personally have problems with "reproducing these stamps. A lot of the problems with fake stock markings on eBay come from these. IMHO, you'd be better off just using the stock, as is.
likely the barrel and bolt were changed at the same time.. nice rifle, and a great looking bit of history....i wouldnt change a thing
I simply used it as a reference for what the stock cartouche looked like - I had no idea it was a repro.
I dfon't believe in restamping - same with cars - its only original once:)
---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 PM ----------
the barrel matches the reciever - 1931
I'm gonna leave it as is :)
In 1931 Springfield was still making '03 parts, but doing very little assembly. Regular production had ended in 1927-8, and from then until the eve of Pearl Harbor it was assembling rifles for match and civilian orders--such as there were. With the US entry into the war, there was apparently a massive binge of assembling Springfield rifles from parts on hand. Ordnance policy at the time was to use up existing supplies of old-spec parts before switching to a new design, which helps explain why a rifle with such a late serial could wind up with a WW1-pattern stock. The Armory did not use up their supplies of leftover stocks from 1918-19 until right before WW2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalfort
Large numbers of newly-made Springfields immediately went to second-line units and spent the war there...often not getting fired except for the periodic rifle qualification. As an example, I have a gorgeous 1903A1, with high serial number, mid-30s barrel and prewar C-stock, with an SRS trace to an antiaircraft unit in Newfoundland in 1943. It went through a rebuild program after the war (and the stock is marked accordingly), but there's no evidence anything on it was changed. From what I understand, if an arm came in for rebuild and was found to be already in spec, it was simply stamped (to indicate "it's been here") and sent back out. So, it's entirely possible your rifle spent the war in a similar capacity.
thats good info - this 1931 unit must have had light duty.
How do you know yours went thru a post war rebuild? Does a second circle P designate that?
I need to querry the SRS for info :)
Nothing in SRS for that number
I have a similar period rebuild. Old parts, with a new barreled receiver. J5 Bolt, and a mix here and there.
Hope to test her out this weekend!!!
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MAY12018-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MAY12025-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MAY12020-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3muzzle3-1.jpg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m1903rifle
thats a bummer - the bolt may have been changed when it was preped for issue in WW11