Anyone experience "dented" carbine brass similar to this?

I've got one carbine, probably the best shooting one of the bunch, that leaves some dents in the ejected cases. I was cleaning up the cases for reloading yesterday and noticed what might be some kind of a pattern to it. I haven't shot this one since February, and can't remember too much about where the cases landed, but seems like they were pretty much in one place and easy to find, but may have been almost directly behind me.

I have some notes from when I did the data sheet that shows it has a E279B slide and a flat AI bolt with a Type 3 extractor and a Type 3 ejector. The extractor plunger spring measured about 3/8" and the ejector spring about 1-1/16" - operating slide spring measured 10-1/8." Does anyone have any suggestions to what is causing the dents? The cases must be hitting on something on the way out, but what should I try? I was thinking about changing both springs in the bolt to see what that does for it. Thanks! - Bob

Attachment 34156

It's just from the brass coming around and hitting the Operating Slide Handle. No big thing unless it offends you cosmeticly...Most of my semi's do that.(M1, M4gery,Carbines and let's not forget my Johnson Automatic) You should have seen what my BARs did!

I don't think any of my other carbines do it, but I did have one where the cases hit me in the forehead :(until I changed out some parts. I have one 45 that dents them really bad compared to this carbine. If there's nothing wrong with the gun, then I guess I don't need to worry about it. Thanks. - Bob

How's the extractor, and nicks or a chip in it? Is the plunger maybe turned? If you have a spare extractor you could try replacing it and see if they still hit. You could try cleaning or replacing the spring and plunger. But I don't think they worried about dented cases during the wars. It's guaranteed nobody reloaded then.

I think the extractor did have the ledge "buggered" up a little bit - I'll check. I believe I've got some pictures of all the parts - that might be a good place to look first, and easier than opening up the safe! - Bob

Just found some pictures - maybe that extractor is a little rough? I don't know why that guide for the recoil spring is in there with the bolt parts. :o

Attachment 34157Attachment 34158Attachment 34159Attachment 34160

It looks ok to me.

Extractor plunger looks to have a bit of a overhanging burred edge on the cones tip, rounded over to the flat cut away. Could be just enough to cause a slight problem, by holding the Extractor down some.
Then again maybe not the problem, but a light touch with a file to get rid of it would be easy enough to do while it's loose.
Also in the picture of the bolt still together, it looks like you may have had a metal shaving, or something under the Ejector, Can you see it in your picture?
In the loose parts pics. the Face of the Plunger looks ok and agreed with JimF that the Extractor looks ok.
Try tweeking the end of the plunger and cleaning all parts. Also make sure chamber is clean of debris.
I think all should be fine afterward.

Good Luck,
Charlie-painter777

P.S. I know hard to see, but make sure the plunger flat edge is sitting squarely flat on the extractor. I use the camera on MACRO to be sure. Pic below:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC06041-1.jpg

I have a commercial that does that to brass. It has all USGI parts, except the rec/barrel.

I put a type I ejector in mine and it tends to flip them out between 2 and 3 o'clock. No dents in mine. The type III that was on it threw them to the rear.

Guys, Thanks for all the useful suggestions. I've got a couple of new extractor plungers, but will probably touch the old one up a bit with a file. I don't actually have the bolt apart right now. These were some old pictures I had, and the picture with the bolt together and in the gun was taken just after I had reassembled it. The shiny spot (glare) near the cone of the ejector and by the tip of the firing pin was because I "over did it" a bit with the oil. I've also got a spare Type 1 ejector that I could try. Unrelated question, but what about the "grind marks" on the flat of the AI bolt? Is that the way some of them were supplied to Inland, or has someone worked on it? I never noticed it much until I enlarged the picture. Nice even grinding though, if it's hand work - maybe done by a woman? - Bob

Don't let the wives see that remark about "woman". We'll be crucified...they did the vast amount of the work on these and other guns. I think their machine skills probably were among the best and could compete with anything you would see today. The marks are simple machine process and mean nothing. My LL low number M1 Rifle has little file marks at some receiver corners that break the edges and I wouldn't change that for anything. If you look at any original finish military weapon, you would probably find these machine marks. No concern...

The M1 when properly greased throws them at 1:00, the last going at 3:00. As they dry out the fly further back. My carbines get greased just like the big boy and they throw at 4:00 when lubed up nicely. The different ejector tips do change things somewhat, but not dramatically.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

The different ejector tips do change things somewhat, but not dramatically.

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How about carbines with the later type operating slides? I've heard that's supposed to make quite a bit of difference. On my Inland that hit me in the forehead, it was suggested that I install a Type 5 slide, but since it was too early to have come with one, I installed some new parts on the bolt - and that took care of it. - Bob

Bob,
It (dented casings) must be some what common.
I have an est. 10,000 empty casings. After grabbing 8-10 handfuls I seemed to come across about 2-3 of 10 that would have the little dink. Lets call it 25% with dings, usually a single ding.
Now not all of these have been shot by me.

I try to keep a minimum of 2K re-loaded, and some of that brass also shows the dinks. My re-loads are a mix ranging from once shot new and multiple shot old brass, some shot by me, some shot thru other carbines (owners/makers unknown).

I'll try to pay close attention if I'm denting brass after my next shooting session.
At this time I only have 2 carbines that I shoot a 4,7 mil QHMC and 3,8 mil IBM. Next on the firing line will be a NPM 4,1 mil.

Just to be clear: I've noticed no problems re-loading and re-shooting the brass that is slightly dinged.
I'm just careful to look for bulged, brittle or split brass.

Feeling pictury this weekend. Below 1st pic is my favorite shooter the QHMC, next is the IBM.

HTH and that you enjoyed your weekend,
Charlie-painter777

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC01944-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC07197-1.jpg

Charlie,
Your brass sounds a lot like mine, a little bit of everything from early 40's to present day - I've only got around 1K of empty cases but have about 2K of loaded ammo. I've reloaded quite a bit for revolvers, and was a bit surprised at the extra force it takes to resize these tapered thick walled carbine cases. Some headstamps and dates seem much softer and are a lot easier to do.

I think it's my 3.8 IBM that's denting the cases. I've been shooting an Inland the most, but the IBM is neat because it seems very accurate, and has a light trigger pull. Keep those pictures coming - I think they're what makes this forum so darn interesting - always lots of good carbine related pictures to see here!

As far as how the weekend is going - it hasn't been so good. I had to make a trip to the ER about 3:30 AM this morning. We had quite a scare, but it looks like things are going to be OK. It will be just me and the cat here tonight, but the whole family will be back together by late morning, tomorrow.

You must have survived that cookout OK. We are going to have a barbecue and celebrate a little bit tomorrow night.

Thanks, Bob

Notice anything about the Norma brass?

CH

P.S. I got in trouble not paying enough attention to the guests.
Hard to act interested when most were swapping recipes, while I had the new WRA I was wanting to get internal pic of. Along with the 5,2 Inland.
So I sat quietly cleaning up a 1911 and peeking at the Surps when I could, but too bad it was a slow forum day.
Worst was having some spend the night. By 4 this afternoon the house was clear. :surrender:

Norma is one I don't have, but I do see quite a bit of difference between the Korean War era LC and the Vietnam period LC. In additon to WRA, WCC, PC, LC, and RP, I have a bunch of S&B, AP, HSM, and TopBrass. Also I think there a few IAI and some others I can't recall right now. I do remember that some are a little shorter on the case length than I like - maybe right at 1.280 in. I've distorted some of the case heads and pulled the "rims" off of a few because I didn't use enough lube. My die instructions call for lubing about 1 case in 4, but some of the older cases want to stick if I don't lube at least every other one. On most all of the newer cases, I can get by lubing only about 1 in 10. A couple years ago when components were harder to get, I was trying to find Armscor bullets to try, but everybody had them on backorder. Went to a gunshow last Saturday and found what I thought was a pretty good price on some plated bullets - then later in the day found two different vendors that had Armcor FMJ bullets for about $11.00/100. The Armscor bullets look a lot like Montana Gold, so don't really give a "GI appearnace" to the loaded ammo. What's the deal on the Norma cases? Curious if its the length. - Bob

Yes, some manufacturers have their cases at minimum and others at max. As long as they chamber they don't care. Remember, they don't want you to reload. They want you to buy their ammo. I've never been stingy with the lube. If you start that, you aren't going to get far with 30 Cal and 5.56. It'll be rims off everywhere. I've always lubed every case when doing Carbine and never had problems thst way. I still use water soluable RCBS because I can wash it off in hot water after sizing and it takes part of the crud away too. Then a rattle in a towel and into the tumbler. Since I have to trim after sizing, that gets done before tumbling and then I load on the Dillon 550 to produce some ammo at a decent speed. I always found cases stretched at different rates and headstamp to headstamp is different. Either they will stretch until they are correct or they will crack and either way your problem is over. I always thought Norma brass was softer than most others...