winchester m1 carbine pictures by mannparks - Photobucket
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Nice Winchester! It looks like the attachment of the spring tube is quite a bit different than Painter's. I didn't realize there were changes made in that respect. I had a chance to buy a Winchester a few months ago, but the serial numbers looked "funny" and the area behind the serial number looked like it had been filed, or ground on by hand. Later I found out that those things were considered normal. It will probably be a long time before I come across another one in as good a shape for $700. - Bob
Very nice looking Winchester! I just love the early spring tube models :)
Charlie's is an earlier version. His has the raised piece that fits into a slot on the receiver. The tube has to be removed prior to the slide. Note the second machined area just behind the bolt opening on Mannparks. The early version did not have that.
Really nice,
And great timing. Something sweet to look at this weekend while it's hot outside.
A nice honest looking early WRA. Keep adding pictures to your album. More, More, More !!
IIRC, The Type II (without mounting lug) Spring tube housing came in around 1,065,000...... Off my old tired memory :ugh:.
Thank You,
Charlie-painter777
Not bad Charlie. The first 50,000 carbines or so that were made had the old style spring tube receivers with two cuts so your memory still OK.
Since becoming the owner of a fairly early WRA, I'm trying to study up on these. Most of my WRA knowledge, maybe like most of us falls into the ranges of ones we already own. My only other WRA's are all in the 5 mil block. So I'm trying to learn, search and observe these found in the first serial block.
WRA 1,090,379
This carbine falls real close to the first changes made by WRA, as far as I know so far.
This receiver would be a Type I, 2nd variation (called a Type IB per Riesch). Meaning it doesn't have the cut out for a spring tube's lug. It does have the 2nd notch cut out for removing the slide, but the slide stop pin hole is still drilled all the way thru.
From a old note I found here, I had scribbled that WRA came to using the tube without lug at 1,055,000 + or -. So really close to what Bruce added and my guess of 65k.
Also have written down that WRA Type I variation 2 receivers (Riesch Type IB) were seen in use at est. 1,085,000 possibly earlier.
I have a file I'll try to study soon on a original 1,088,xxx and look for any info I can add.
At this time I'm not sure when the WRA Type I, 3rd variations would come in play (Riesch Type IC). I would expect not far after the Type I, 2nd variations (Riesch Type IB's).
These did not have the slide stop pin hole drilled all the way thru.
Doing away with the completly drilled thru holes for the spring tubes lug and slides stop pin helped strengthened the receiver. These 2 changes reduced the chances of cracked receivers. The books all seem to agree on this.
Trigger Housing Question?
Can anyone tell from these pictures if the trigger housing has squared rear lug .... making it a Type III?
Or is it beveled making it a Type II?
I know they (Type III's) were used much earlier than I originally thought they were, but is this about when they started showing up........ 1,090K ?
Riesch states 1,220,000 mil, but I think it was much earlier.
Hammer,
Can't tell from the pictures, but should be possible to see either a Type I or Type II Dogleg hammer. Need to see the angle of the top notch. The best I can see the hammer spring is the early 22 coil spring.
Stock Oiler Slots,
I cut Hi-wood stock from first production, seen as late as est. 1,153,591.
Oval Hi-wood stock came in roughly 1,067,649 until end of first serial block.
Stock Markings,
The Large Boxed WRA/GHD seen used to est. 1,067,649.
Un-boxed WRA/GHD started near 1,055,513.
So clearly a overlap of both. More than likely just using up the I cuts, since the change was made because the oval slot was easier to make.
Wasn't the I cut used originally because they had plans to use the different type oiler? Which never panned out?
Stock question,
Is there a Circled P proof on the bottom of the pistol grip?
All of this makes this carbine interesting to follow.
Now note these are old notes I've had around for a few years. I might have missed newly published info since then.
Also lost lots of corrected info I had noted in my first War Baby book, with corrections to it and to Riesch. May never be able to replace those :bash:
It can't be just me, but I find Charles/Mannparks' carbine very interesting.
Would appreciate any thoughts, corrections or input from all.
Thx,
Charlie-painter777
painter , hello,as is this my very first m1 carbine i too am in the class room.
i knew i wanted a winchester and a earlyish one,to go with my 12-41 mi garand.
i jus bought a new [used] camera w/ macro capabilites,so when it gets hear i send out some good close ups i hope.
as for the proof P stamp on the pistot grip there is none.not sure why the stock is fairly clean but i do not think it was sanded .
wood is mostley proud of any metal.
by the way i did very much enjoy the pics of your early win.
the only ref. book at this time i have is Bruce Canfields --keep the faith---charles
Stock doesn't look to have been sanded to me either.
Looks like it's been de-grimed.
Ya got a great starter carbine, for sure.
Look forward to many more pics.
Thx,
Charlie-painter777
painter ,hammer on my gun is dog leg 2nd type un like yours no slot on top.---charlesQuote:
Originally Posted by painter777
Hey Charles,
Got busy today with company, plus the race was here in Michigan, but I got to see Dale Jr Win !!
So didn't get a chance to look over that pic file for WRA 1,088,xxx.
Have you considered filling out a Carbine Club Data sheet on your carbine?
Here is a link to The Carbine Club;
The Carbine Club - A CMP Affiliated Organization
Near the bottom of the page you can print off a Data Sheet.
It's a must for a carbine like yours.
You can fill it out and send it in.
Any questions about filling it out, just ask, be happy to help.
Cheers,
Charlie-painter777
good for jr. he has been a little dry latley i usualy tape the race but it was not on our telly for some reason?Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
whats the purpose of sending the sheet in to the club?==charles
Charles,
The Carbine Club documents the parts and any info they can from the turned in Data Sheets.
Grouped together over all these years, these Data Sheets gives us a insight to what features were found on what makers via the serial number ranges.
Started in 1976 The Carbine Club now has thousands of data sheets on file. The information has been compiled and cross-referenced.
I think it best that you read the link below about The Carbine Club.
This should answer any questions you may have.
Join the club, you'll find no better source of information. The best books available are written by members, like Larry Ruths' War Baby.
Membership and the Data Sheet information can be found on the Clubs link.
The Newsletters are priceless.
Membership Info directly From The Carbine Clubs Web Page:
Membership in the Carbine Club is open to both novices and advanced collectors alike. The prerequisite for membership is a commitment to contribute information on an ongoing basis, in keeping with the Club's purpose of gathering and sharing information.
Thx,
Charlie-painter777
The Carbine Club
The Carbine Club - A CMP Affiliated Organization