Winchester Model 67-22, did the Govt use these? I have one and it has some.....

markings that look like govt'.

I'll get pics up eventually, if there is anything to this but the here's what it's marked:

mid way down the barrel it's got winchester markings, and model 67-22 short long and long rifle. And a serial number with those punched numbers 014XX.

But the weird markings are by the chamber. It says "M.192 1947" Right over the chamber on top of the barrel. Then on the left side of the chamber on the barrel, right where it meets the wood there are 3 very small markings. Two of them are right by each other and they have a crown over a letter. I think one of the letters is an E and the other has a P, but the one with the P has an X over it, sideways. Under the crown. And the the third is an oval with a P and some other lines in it.

Is this strange? Or Govt' markings? I've never seen markings like this before.

---------- Post added at 10:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 AM ----------

I forgot to say, thank you for any info if anyone has anything to post. I appreciate it.

Nope , but yours may have passed through England sometime . Look on the internet for pictures of the pre and post 50s ( 54? 56? ) British proof marks and see how they compare with the marks on your rifle.
Chris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by emmagee1917

Nope , but yours may have passed through England sometime . Look on the internet for pictures of the pre and post 50s ( 54? 56? ) British proof marks and see how they compare with the marks on your rifle.
Chris

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That's what I was thinking when I saw how they were stamped. Could the 1947 be an export year? Is that what a "British Proof Mark" would be for?

You have really been a big help with a lot of my questions. Thank you sir. I really appreciate it.

The markings indicate the rifle was used by the British during WWII. They bought from the US and from the gun shops in England. The M192 over 1947 is the marking added by the company M192 who did a refit/cleaning/rebuild in 1947 after the war. The rifle was retained for training and later sold off in the early 1960/s. The other small marks are commercial proof marks done when the gun was surplused off in the 60's.

Wow. That is cool. Is it worth anything? Let me see if I can post pics. I would love to shoot this rifle. Is that wise?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...23E2523E-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...23E2523E-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3E2523EW-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3E2523EW-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...23E2523E-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...923E2523-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3E2523EW-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...923E2523-2.jpg

I am quite sure that commercial Winchester 67s did not come with a serial number. My Dad's certainly did not. He shot it at local , "turkey shoots" in Saskatchewan in the early 50s and most often came back to the farm with something for the oven. He also shot magpies ( the bird), for sport as they hung around the offal after some animal had been butchered. He also shot the occasional duck that landed on the dugout. The rifle was cherished well cared for .

Well the serial number looks like the same tools used as the M.192 1947 marks. Those punch numbers I think.

Collective "wisdom" is any of the following:

1. A "serial number" was added by Winchester on export arms to make them compatible with that countries laws.

2. Serial number was added by the Home Guard during the war.

Thank you guys!!! I looked at the bore and it's nice and clean, but the lands and grooves do appear to be a little worn. Not all that surprising. But I'm no expert. Maybe it's not.

I agree that Winchester never serial numbered the Model 67. I see what appears to be military inspection marks, but don't see any British proofs.

I don't really know what they'd look like either, but I was assuming the 2nd and 3rd pic might be them. They are crowns over numbers.

There were only two proof houses in England, London and Birmingham, and those are not proofs from either of those houses.

So then what are they? They sure look very "royal". Heheheheh Did they go to Canada?

No , they are British military proofs , at least one of them is. The crown over V3 over E is the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield . I would guess the other mark is a viewers mark ( a guess based on the "X" part of the stamp ) at some spot I'm not aware of.
Chris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ABPOS

So then what are they? They sure look very "royal". Heheheheh Did they go to Canada?

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Read post #11.

Also, look at this thread. Cartouche / Stamp ? Those are British proofs.

The Crown and X mark is actually, a crown, over the letters GR for the king over crossed pennants over the letter P, for proof. The crown over V3 over is an Enfield inspection stamp. A second one is stamped into the underside of the stock betewen the front of the trigger guard and the large screw that holds the stock to the barrel.

The mark M192 is for P.H. Arms Co, Birmingham, a subsidiary of Parker Hale Ltd.


Regards


AlanD
Sydney

This is very neat.

Would you guys shoot this if it was safe? I don't think it has a whole lot of value. I think someone was offering to buy it from me, but I have to think on that.

What I don't understand about the action is the extractor gets pulled back when the bolt is pulled back, but it stays back. is it suppose to go back forward? It just seems like it would be weird to load with the extractor so far back. Has anyone shot one of these before?

As AlanD explained, they are inspection marks rather than proofs.

Gotcha. I apologize if I used the wrong terminology. I've never delved into these waters before.

Interesting comment about the extractor, which is a piece fitted to a slot under the bolt in the action body and is carried back and forth by the bolt. I do not recall how the lip on the extractor body actually gets ahead of the rim, but it has worked fine in thousands of 67s and other Winchesters in this family. The action cocks on closing. The safety is a cylindrical part with a tab for rotation. It rotates clockwise ( tab upright) blocking the firing pin. This is a very dependable safety mechanism. These rifles are plenty strong for the .22 cartridge. The bolt locks on the bolt handle. I would not hesitate to fire it as long as the bolt locks up properly and there is no obstruction in the barrel. I would likely fire the first round at arm's length rather than against my face. In this part of the woods, a nice 67 sells for $ 125 to $ 150. I would judge yours to be at the upper end or more, due to the British markings. However, if you decide to sell it, it is only worth what someone will pay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RCEMERalf

Interesting comment about the extractor, which is a piece fitted to a slot under the bolt in the action body and is carried back and forth by the bolt. I do not recall how the lip on the extractor body actually gets ahead of the rim, but it has worked fine in thousands of 67s and other Winchesters in this family. The action cocks on closing. The safety is a cylindrical part with a tab for rotation. It rotates clockwise ( tab upright) blocking the firing pin. This is a very dependable safety mechanism. These rifles are plenty strong for the .22 cartridge. The bolt locks on the bolt handle. I would not hesitate to fire it as long as the bolt locks up properly and there is no obstruction in the barrel. I would likely fire the first round at arm's length rather than against my face. In this part of the woods, a nice 67 sells for $ 125 to $ 150. I would judge yours to be at the upper end or more, due to the British markings. However, if you decide to sell it, it is only worth what someone will pay.

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The extractor is tapered on the forward edge and is forced under the cartridge rim on closing the bolt. It is flat on the backside and holds the cartridge for extraction. On the Model 97 Winchester shown, the safety has been bent down 90 degrees to clear the added rear sight.

The action of the Model 67 Winchester does not cock on closing, but has to be manually cocked by pulling back the cocking knob. In this position the safety can be rotated 90 degrees to lock the firing pin back.

Aaah, so the extractor will actually be forced underneath the cartridge when closing the bolt. That makes sense.

Yeah, it doesn't cock on closing. You have to pull it your self.

I'm not too crazy about the "Arms length for the first shot" comment, but I know what you mean. I remember trying some other firearm out that I was a little concerned about and I wore those big safety glasses over the glasses I already wear. And I stood as far back as I could the first time. I wonder which weapon I did that for...... Anyways. When a rifle is this old, I'm just not real comfy about it.

Yes, must be cocked manually. Looks like safety is rotated counter-clockwise to get tab upright. Guess I better not rely on memory that much! The extractor mechanism is very clever. It is retained by a leaf spring that is secured through the nut that is dovetailed into the barrel and accepts the single action screw. Extractor also functions as the bolt stop as it pivots and is tilted down at the rear when the trigger is pulled.. As the extractor is pushed forward by the bolt, the projection on the extractor is pushed down by the cartridge rim against the leaf spring. The extractor comes under increased upward tension of the spring ( bears on extractor forward of the pivot) as the bottom of the extractor has a ramp and second level that bears against the spring, assisting the extractor to pop up ahead of the rim. Much easier to understand , I am sure, by looking at it, rather than trying to interpret my description.