Need Help with correct Stock and Handguard for an Early Winchester

Greetings,
I picked up my first M1 carbine at my LGS. I got it fairly cheap because it was bubba'd up a bit for a homemade scope mount. Shoots and functions well. Bought it because it looked early and appeared mostly correct. (still have lots to learn though)

It's a Winchester, s/n 10807xx. The barreled action and trigger group look correct to me, except for the front and rear sights.

Besides being chopped for a scope's objective, the handguard is a two rivet marked Inland.

What is the correct Winchester handguard? I know it should be a two rivet, but I don't know if it should be deep groove, shallow, bullnose, or ???

How about the stock? "I" or oval? It has an oval and high wall, but it was chopped on the left side for the scope mount. Other parts are wrong too. Inland type 1A barrel band, SG recoil plate, ect.

Thanks for the help,
Eric

The parts aren't necessarily "wrong". If I'm correct. I forget the actual deal with all that, but I'm pretty sure they sometimes had mismatched parts. Especially if it was arsenal rebuilt. But I think some of them came that way. Because they had a bunch of people making the parts, and then they would grab from whoever was done first to build rifles. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong about that, but I'm pretty sure subcontractors would make some of these items, stamped them with the name of the contract, but then some of those parts would get shipped to a different manufacture due to need.

A high wood stock is good for WWII. I don't know about the upper stock though.

I've been out of the game a while and I haven't done a lot of studying on it lately, so someone can correct me if I'm all wet please. But to my recollection, what I said above might have some truth in it.

Thanks for the reply. My first goal for the stock and handguard, is to replace them with originals, whose types would be consistent with the initial date of manufacture.

My only reference right now is Canfields which says HW, oval cut stocks after 1100000, and two rivet handguards. No mention of groove style for example. Not sure how current this info is or if there is any over lap. Oval cut stocks would be easier to find if its possible my rifle could have originally had one.

As I have said previously:

When evaluating a USGI (non import) Carbine that has parts and/or finish that do not conform to orginal manufacture specifications, consider that during its service lifetime it may have:

1. Been used in combat in WWII and had parts (randomly selected without regard to manufacturer) replaced by Field Maintenance.

2. Undergone Arsenal/Depot rebuild* after the war (randomly selected parts without regard to manufacturer).

3. Been returned to service in the Korean war and again had parts (randomly selected without regard to manufacturer) replaced by Field Maintenance.

4. Been rebuilt* by an overseas Depot (randomly selected parts without regard to manufacturer) Note: stock not stamped as rebuilt.

5. Been returned to service again as, for example, a Firing Range carbine and had parts (randomly selected without regard to manufacturer) replaced by Field Maintenance.

* Rebuild might have included Stock/Handguard replacement, barrel replacement and re-parkerizing.

OR .......... parts may have been replaced and/or refinishing performed by a subsequent civilian owner after the carbine's service lifetime.

Of course, it is now your carbine and you can re-configure it and/or re-finish it as you please.

My carbine, has the plunger safety and old style mag release, no "M". If this rifle went through arsenal or depot rebuild, would the safety and mag release been replaced with the newer styles?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eplexus

My carbine, has the plunger safety and old style mag release, no "M". If this rifle went through arsenal or depot rebuild, would the safety and mag release been replaced with the newer styles?

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Yes. Visit the top linked page in my signature block below.

Great page Chief! Thanks for providing it.

If there are holes drilled on the side of the receiver then there is very little if any collector value left in the carbine. Would be better to leave it as is and enjoy it as a good shooter.

Sadly, mine is that way.......

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill

If there are holes drilled on the side of the receiver then there is very little if any collector value left in the carbine. Would be better to leave it as is and enjoy it as a good shooter.

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I fully appreciate that. I'm not trying to restore this rifle into a high end collectible. The handguard is chopped, it looks like crap, and I don't enjoy it.

It's going to get replaced. Since I'm replacing it anyway, it only makes sense to spend a little extra effort to choose one that matches what originally came on it. My problem is that I don't have enough handguard knowledge to make that choice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eplexus

I fully appreciate that. I'm not trying to restore this rifle into a high end collectible. The handguard is chopped, it looks like crap, and I don't enjoy it.

It's going to get replaced. Since I'm replacing it anyway, it only makes sense to spend a little extra effort to choose one that matches what originally came on it. My problem is that I don't have enough handguard knowledge to make that choice.

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Makes sense to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eplexus

Greetings,
I picked up my first M1 carbine at my LGS. I got it fairly cheap because it was bubba'd up a bit for a homemade scope mount. Shoots and functions well. Bought it because it looked early and appeared mostly correct. (still have lots to learn though)

It's a Winchester, s/n 10807xx. The barreled action and trigger group look correct to me, except for the front and rear sights.

Besides being chopped for a scope's objective, the handguard is a two rivet marked Inland.

What is the correct Winchester handguard? I know it should be a two rivet, but I don't know if it should be deep groove, shallow, bullnose, or ???

How about the stock? "I" or oval? It has an oval and high wall, but it was chopped on the left side for the scope mount. Other parts are wrong too. Inland type 1A barrel band, SG recoil plate, ect.

Thanks for the help,
Eric

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WRA 1,080,7xx Stock:
WRA used the I cut oiler/Hi-wood from start of production to roughly 1,153,591.
The Oval oiler/Hi-wood came in around 1,067,649 until the end of the first serial number block.
The Large boxed WRA over GHD was used to ~ 1,067,649.
Un-boxed WRA over GHD came in around 1,055,513.

So there was some over lap of both stocks and stamps.

For a Hand guard, You could use a Type 1. Deep sighting groove, Un-marked or with a W. Winchester handguards are found with a particular milling style underneath.
The routered circles usually show the last cut as being on the outside edge.
This is what I've noticed anyway.

HTH,
Charlie-painter777

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC05985-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC05988-1.jpg

That's what I wanted to hear on the stock. I was hoping there was some overlap and that some ovals were used
prior to s/n 1100000.

How about the bullnose/non-bullnose handguards. Do you have any data about when they were used/not-used?

Thanks for the specific details. This is exactly the data I'm looking for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by painter777

WRA 1,080,7xx Stock:
WRA used the I cut oiler/Hi-wood from start of production to roughly 1,153,591.
The Oval oiler/Hi-wood came in around 1,067,649 until the end of the first serial number block.
The Large boxed WRA over GHD was used to ~ 1,067,649.
Un-boxed WRA over GHD came in around 1,055,513.

So there was some over lap of both stocks and stamps.

For a Hand guard, You could use a Type 1. Deep sighting groove, Un-marked or with a W. Winchester handguards are found with a particular milling style underneath.
The routered circles usually show the last cut as being on the outside edge.
This is what I've noticed anyway.

HTH,
Charlie-painter777

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC05985-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC05988-1.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by eplexus

How about the bullnose/non-bullnose handguards. Do you have any data about when they were used/not-used?

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IIRC,
The 'Bull-nose' style HG are associated with WRA 1942 to mid 1943 production.
I don't have the info available to place it in a particular serial range.
I've seen Bull-nose go for bigger $.

I do know a guy with plenty of extra HG's.......

Cheers,
Charlie-painter777

---------- Post added at 11:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by painter777

Other parts are wrong too. Inland type 1A barrel band, SG recoil plate, ect.

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Eric,
Are there any markings on your Type I band?
On the swivel?
How many weld spots on top of the band?

Curious as to how you figure it's a Inland...?

Thx,
CH-P777

I just picked up a shallow grovve HG that fits and matches the finish on the stock pretty well.
It looks a lot better now. I'd still be interested in tracking down a deep groove though.

The barrel band is a narrow 1/1A type. I don't see spot welds and the only marking is on the
flat of the swivel. It's marked "UI" The swivel has the wider opening. My thought was that the
swivel was replaced.

Eric

Quote:

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Originally Posted by painter777

IIRC,
The 'Bull-nose' style HG are associated with WRA 1942 to mid 1943 production.
I don't have the info available to place it in a particular serial range.
I've seen Bull-nose go for bigger $.

I do know a guy with plenty of extra HG's.......

Cheers,
Charlie-painter777

---------- Post added at 11:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------



Eric,
Are there any markings on your Type I band?
On the swivel?
How many weld spots on top of the band?

Curious as to how you figure it's a Inland...?

Thx,
CH-P777

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