Madness? Garand with serial number under 2000

Just what purpose is there really in buying a mixmaster M1 with fairly wretched wood just to have an early serial numbered receiver. Price is about what you would expect of a "normal" M1 outside of direct CMP sales. Barrel's a nice 1950 vintage, nothing bad about any of the other metal bits.

Receiver itself looks to be in very good shape. Low round count in all likelihood. Has had the seventh round stoppage weld repair. Elevation serrations aren't worn down.

I've bought Garands before just for the parts, but there's no real hope of a total restoration/correct parts accumulation in this case, so why the temptation to get what would be just another shooter with a low number?

So far, my only excuse is that the receiver machining details are a little different from what I've seen on later rifles. I think the only other matching/"correct" parts in the parts bin are a trigger housing and a hammer. The other gas trap parts I have are later production.

Normally, I don't sweat this kind of purchase too much, but somehow this seems a bit looney...or am I just getting old?:madsmile:

I think you're just getting old. I'd buy it too, for the same reason. If it not at a premium why not? We need pictures by the way.


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You have a better chance of finding out some data on the early receivers then say something in the 1943-44 serial number range, SRS has alot of four digit data. Clean receivers even with the 7th round modification are up in value, without the modification even more. Most of the nice three digits start around $2500 for a receiver and restoration of these three and four digits is never really contemplated by most collectors. Even when built-up as an occasional shooter or target rifle, I think you are more comfortable with a four digit M1 rifle receiver than a M1903 in the four digit serial range

If you want to take on a life-long task to restore it, you will find perfect data for it in the Fall 2009 GCA Journal. We compared 1630 and 1684, both original. Yours could be from the first production order for 1500 guns that was started July 1937 and completed April 1938. Because of rejections and recycles, serials went to the 2000 area. But get out your wallet!

SRS records show that serial number 1607 was sent to Winchester on Sept 19, 1938, the receipt was signed by Col Robert Sears and Winchester Vice Pres Edwin Pugsley. The receipt indicated the rifle was on loan to Winchester and they would properly safeguard said material at all times; we use said material only in connection with procurement planning as authorized by the Chief of Ordnance.

I don't think the purchase is madness. I have knowledge of the whereabouts of 153 and 154 here in Canada and if they were available for a reasonable price, I'd buy them without any hope of rebuild to original spec. Just for the numbers.

I did find, after looking for a number of years, an original DuLite finish Winchester three digit receiver on the CMP auction site last year (and without anneal color too). This resulted in an excellent restoration

"1607 was sent to Winchester on Sept 19, 1938"

Yes, it's very interesting to me that serial numbers got so far ahead of the number of rifles completed in the first two years. They had so many recycles as they learned how to build them that MANY rifles were built on receivers with much higher numbers than you would expect. Then, of course, those recycles came back into the assembly process, so many guns had serials much LOWER than you would guess for the time period (maybe 1607?). It's a real education on SA's almost complete disinterest in the receiver serial... the order said 1500 RIFLES, and that's all that mattered. It's a far cry from the earliest days when they had to scrap a receiver and actually reused the number!

All of the M1's I have bought I bought just to have M1's. Just wanting to own a piece of history. I had no idea there was so much involved in owning them regarding serial numbers and originality.

Thanks for input, y'all!

My hesitation comes from having a bit much going on from several fronts, in all likelihood.

Have already made some photos without doing a detail strip. Further disassembly will have to wait until it's paid for.

Replacing the the wood will make it much more visually appealing. Fortunately Bubba did not abuse the metal.

I still want to build a "replica" gas trap rifle one of these days. But this receiver just seems awefully nice for such a fantasy project.

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Originally Posted by langss

All of the M1's I have bought I bought just to have M1's. Just wanting to own a piece of history. I had no idea there was so much involved in owning them regarding serial numbers and originality.

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I became an M1 "parts collector" long ago after realizing that "original and 'as left the assembly line'" rifles from WWII were extremely scarce. Far scarcer than Axis Powers rifles. Those who do manage to obtain "reference grade" historically correct rifles typically have do do LOTS of research and put in large amounts of time and money. Especially now that there is a small industry dedicated to "improving" rifles for profit.

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Originally Posted by gsimmons

We need pictures by the way.

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Well, OK then:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff031-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff023-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff020-1.jpg
Seems to have weld spots on both sides. Somehow, I forget about the LH side when this subject comes up. Probably because all the usual illustrations show the RH view.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff021-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff019-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff030-1.jpg

More to be had if you want.

Looks like a 1600 serial range, SRS has a number of 1600 serial numbers listed for the different companies of the 29th Inf in 1938. Some problems with the hammer being chipped too

What a nice gun...

I think that a receiver without the 7th round correction would make an excellent choice for a gas trap restoration with one of those new gas trap front end kits (I think these kits have been reduced to around $2000 now). Depending on the serial number, you could have your choice of either the fluted gas cylinder or the later one

Yes, the rib mod dooms it. If the object of a restoration is to simulate original construction, a rebuilt rib screams that it isn't.

I'm sorry, the new kits are just too expensive. $4000? Almost? And then you have what exactly? Other than a shootable lookalike...mind you, I would like to shoot it with you!

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Originally Posted by jmoore

Thanks for input, y'all!

My hesitation comes from having a bit much going on from several fronts, in all likelihood.

Have already made some photos without doing a detail strip. Further disassembly will have to wait until it's paid for.

Replacing the the wood will make it much more visually appealing. Fortunately Bubba did not abuse the metal.

I still want to build a "replica" gas trap rifle one of these days. But this receiver just seems awefully nice for such a fantasy project.



I became an M1 "parts collector" long ago after realizing that "original and 'as left the assembly line'" rifles from WWII were extremely scarce. Far scarcer than Axis Powers rifles. Those who do manage to obtain "reference grade" historically correct rifles typically have do do LOTS of research and put in large amounts of time and money. Especially now that there is a small industry dedicated to "improving" rifles for profit.

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That's kind of what I was getting at. The first one I bought and I had absolutely no idea what to look for or at. Its a SA 276XXXX S/N. The second one is a SA 297XXXX S/N. The last one is IH 513XXXX S/N. They are all imports and I know the first one is a real mixmaster of all kinds of parts. The barrel is totally shot out. The other two are not in bad condition, and time permitting I will get them all out and see what I have.

I have heard it both ways. The Army recalled all of the Gas Traps to convert them into Gas Port guns. Also heard the Army didn't actually recall them, but sent out directions to lower commands to modify them. Either way an unmodified receiver is a rare bird. If you must have an unmodified receiver to have a "True Gas Trap" might not be many Gas Traps around.

jmoore, if you can send or have someone send me the serial number of the 1600 rifle by email, I will see what information is available and return by email.

receivers with original low guide ribs are around, CMP has sold them in the past auctions too, there are difficult to fake - when weld-ed up to the high rib and machined, the welding will leave a dark color to the area

There was no recall and no directive to lower levels. The new front end was developed in 1939 and used to build test batches as early as the 13000 serial range. It was much cheaper to use up the old style parts, then upgrade them when they came in for normal refurbishment in 12 - 18 months. Not all Gas Traps had accuracy problems, most did not. Remember that this was two years before WWII, and we were at peace. About 48,000 GTs were built through June 1940, serials ran into the 50,000 range.

Accuracy problems? Will you expound for me Bob?

As you know, the gas plug was essentially a false muzzle that deflected the gas into the cylinder, and the bullet had to pass through it. This was not a problem with the Model Shop guns carefully constructed by JCG, but under mass production the tolerances sometimes slipped. When that happened, the plug could deform under the heat from rapid fire, and the bullet could make contact with it. Some early guns had real accuracy problems, and the new rifle was subject to severe criticism from many quarters, including a scathing article by the NRA titled "Wanted, A Rifle." It played right into the hands of the hardshells who hated the idea of a semiautomatic and people like Johnson and his supporters who had an axe to grind.

Garand knew all about tapping off the gas with a gas port, but he was concerned about fouling and erosion, so went with the trap method as more reliable. He had to go to a gas port in the face of all the criticism.

I hadn't heard that but it all makes sence.

There was a gage to check the alignment between the plug and the bore but the GI did not have it, also very easy to loose that front sight screw in the field

Was the reliability mod to correct the seventh round stoppage introduced after the beginning of the gas port production? Was skimming through Duff's book this morning, but the dates didn't stick.

Regardless, I don't think I'm even close to that level of "purist" to consider the lack of the fix a requirement for a fantasy build using new production parts. If I had a real gas trap front end in storage, then getting a proper reconstruction would be important. But that's not very likely...

Did find a "no pad" trigger housing in the stash. Looks like a machining error, but it's a "no dash" unit. Best trigger guard found so far is a -1, a bit late. Have an early op rod, uncut, somewhere. Think it's a -1 as well. Also too late. For sure it's not early enough, anyway.

BTW, the rifle looks ten times better now that it's wearing a different stock and handguards. With "no number" grooved bands for funsies. Stock is a spare OG/GAW assembly that's not as a tight of a fit as i like, but it's far better "eyewash" than the sanded and "Tru Oiled" mess that was on the rifle. Makes sense with the 1950 date barrel anyway.

Here's a new on on me: Bubba sanded all the way through the thickness of the end cap metal - in more than one place!:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff004-1.jpg

Would suggest the purchase of Billy Pyle's book "The Gas Trap Garand" best book on this subject. Page 83 show s/n 338 that was overhauled during FY 1941 with the corrected guide ribs and still returned as a gas trap rifle or rebuilt still as a gas trap rifle


jmoore did you receive my email ?

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Originally Posted by jmoore

Bubba sanded all the way through the thickness of the end cap metal

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That would take new 80 grit...and lots of it.