The tag said No.4 Mk.1......is it?

I was at a local gun store looking for reloading supplies and as I was walking out the door I sort of off handedly asked "hey....you wouldn’t happen to have a Lee Enfield No.4 or a MAS 36 would you?" And sure enough he did. The tag read No.4 Mk.1 but it doesn't show that on the receiver. The serial number on the rear band, bolt and magazine all match (BA28734) although the bottom half of the "B" on the rear band is not very legible. Over the last couple of day I've done some research and I believe the first number in the serial # (2) means it was made at the Fazakerley arsenal. Someone on another forum posted that the serial no. of his No.4...BA26xxx was made in 1942 or 1943. It looks like the second # of the date is a 2 but I cannot make out the first number. And as you can see the only thing that can be seen on the receiver is FTR. The price was less than $200 so you know it came home with me. Any help in identifying what I have here and when it was made would be greatly appreciated.

Here it is.......
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...000_0018-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...000_0019-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...000_0020-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...000_0021-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...000_0022-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 09:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 PM ----------

And the rest.......
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...000_0027-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...000_0028-1.jpg

it looks very Mk1 to me
the cocking piece looks odd, its missing the half cock position

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Originally Posted by Mr E

the cocking piece looks odd, its missing the half cock position

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It seems to be all there- but the front part runs off page unless you scroll over (at least on this monitor.)

I believe the rifle is most of a Maltby FTR. (Missing the fronr sight protector.)

The butt socket looks like it had the markings scrubbed off during the FTR, so the serial number may be a bit arbitary. Could have been assigned just to keep the records straight.

You will shoot this rifle?? Pay attention: front handguard makes contact with front sight base. This is not best condition to shoot tight groups..

Immediate Post war Factory Thorough Repaired at the old ROF Maltby. This is quite unusual as the factory had cesaed production of rifles and they wanted to keep the place handy to see how things panned out. ROFM did a small amount of FTR work. Alas, as they really only manufactured a small amount of stuff but were really an assembly factory, output and progress was slow so it soon got (was the first to get) the chop. Looks like an old ROF 6 Fazakerley rifle. The foresight blade way over to the side exceeds the lateral limit allowable and the barrel is therfore unserviceable or at least needs examining to see if anything else might be causing it.

Apologies if this extra info isn't what you asked for but I had my wrist slightly slapped recently for doing so but if it's not, just ignore it

When did Maltby stop rifle production?


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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Apologies if this extra info isn't what you asked for but I had my wrist slightly slapped recently for doing so but if it's not, just ignore it

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I didn't think there was such a thing as to much information about these rifles:confused:. Unless you told some one something they didn't want to hear about theirs:rolleyes:.

I stand to be corrected on exactly but it was in early '45, before the European war ended. ROF 6 Fazakerley and ROF 8 (? without looking it up.....) Maltby were only wartime manufactories but Fazakerley had the biggest output so post war rifle production was concentrated there. Both were militant hotbeds of strife but it was told to me that Rotherham/Maltby had sufficient industry with coal and steel.

Interesting, thank you.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

The foresight blade way over to the side exceeds the lateral limit allowable and the barrel is therfore unserviceable or at least needs examining to see if anything else might be causing it.

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I have not fired the weapon yet but plan to this Sunday. I am planning on returning the front sight to the center and go from there. The gun store clerk dug it out from behind a desk in the back office ( he said the he was going to buy it for himself and I saved him the trouble of explaining another gun purchase to his wife) so it may have been bumped over by rough handling. I'll find out this Sunday.

Unless I've missed it in the dark photos, there SHOULD be a foresight protector there too just to prevent the foresight from being knocked about

It's also looks to be missing the tiny pin that keeps the rear sight axis pin secured.
Will shooting it minus the front sight protector change the harmonics and effect accuracy?

Don't return the frontsight to the center. Start where it is and adjust accordingly. It's been put where it is for a reason as it has most definitely been fired. Don't reinvent the wheel.

:thup:I would agree with Peter. A Faz rifle FTR'd by by ROFM. If you take the barrelled action out of the woodwork you will be able to tell if it was made by Faz - take a look at the draw lugs & if they are asymmetrical in the way they are machined (one left as a block & the other with lightening machining) then it's a Faz. PL will correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is a little idiosyncracy in production peculiar to ROF F.

ATB

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Unless I've missed it in the dark photos, there SHOULD be a foresight protector there too just to prevent the foresight from being knocked about

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The foresight protector is on order along with a bayonet.

If it only zeroes with the foresight that far over the side, then check the fit of the fore-end. If it ain't that, then it's fit only for scrap or a new (or a good second hand) barrel

What would cause a rifle to zero that far to the left outside of the forend fit? Just something in the barrel or at the muzzle?

It could be something as simple as a bad fit of the fore-end influencing the barrel - to the bolthead not square against the rear of the case. On the other hand it could be cordwear or a pucker or just anything. But in my limited experience here, if it ain't the fore-end, it's the barrel that is slightly bent. Straight enough to pass the short 3" long .301 gauge but it won't be straight enough to pass the 6" long 'gauge testing straightness of bore'. Alas, we stopped using the long gauge, relying on the range test instead.

Wowo so a bolthead not being square against the case cann affect the zeroing of the rifle. Well you live and learn.

That's why, when we fit a new bolt, after blueing and checking the locking faces of the bolt and body or bolt head, we smear a light thin coat of engineers blue on the rear face of the NO-GO CHS gauge and LIGHTLY close the bolt/bolthead down onto it. There MUST be a full impression of the rear of the gauge on the face of the bolt

Changing that doesn't sound like something an enthusiastic amateur should be mucking about with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

If it only zeroes with the foresight that far over the side, then check the fit of the fore-end. If it ain't that, then it's fit only for scrap or a new (or a good second hand) barrel

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Peter, sometimes a duck is just a duck. A legal concept I believe we yanks got from our brothers across the pond is "innocent until proven guilty". I returned the front sight blade to the center of the front sight block and headed off to the range.

I think the accused is still innocent.:thup:

As proof I offer exhibit "A":

The target was turned sidewise so that it could be attached to the target stand and I was more concerned with the center of the target (left/right) then I was with elevation. This was my first opportunity to fire this rifle since I purchased it earlier this week.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Target1-1.jpg

The shots marked “J.S.” on exhibit "B" were fired by my son-in-law who can actually see what he is shooting at.


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Target2-1.jpg

The defense rests and I leave it in the hands of you the jury.

Mmmmmmmmmm............. What are you actually asking me to comment about? I don't quite understand a) the comment or b) the targetry

Sorry Peter, often when I think I’m being funny I just end up being obtuse. What I meant by “a duck is a duck” is that sometimes the correct answer is the simplest answer. When the thread took off in an interesting direction, that I did not expect (because of the picture of the front sight) and may be ready for the scrap heap, my first thought was “maybe it got bumped over there (no front sight protector), only one way to find out”. Everything else about the rifle looked so good that I was not prepared to scrap it just because of where the front sight was.

The targets were set at 75 yards and had to be turned 90% so that I could staple them to the frame. Looking through the 300 yard peep sight, with the front sight returned to the center of the sight block, I focused on staying on the centerline of the target and worried less about elevation. I think the pictures show that the barrel seems to be ok and in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing (not me) this Enfield should do quite well.
:cheers:

I am new to the enfield and still learning but I was under the impression that the dual aperture sights were only from the american made MK1*s? it is in pretty good condition as far as rust and wood condition are concerned. I also noticed there there is not a half cock position on the bolt. that about seems to be the extent of my knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Mr E

the cocking piece looks odd, its missing the half cock position

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Originally Posted by Tahunua001

I also noticed there there is not a half cock position on the bolt.

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Here's the image in a more bite sized format:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...da5faeaf-1.jpg

I think if I flip the bolt over and post a picture of it we'll see what everyone is talking about.

Now I see what they mean.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...000_0030-1.jpg

And this is where the front sight is now.:dancingbanana:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...000_0032-1.jpg