1st MAS 36 rifle

Bought my first MAS 36 today, really like it. FG prefix, I believe that puts it around '51-'53? Dont really want to take it apart to see the date on the barrel, as I understand it compromises the accuracy. The sling also seems a bit unusual, cant find a one that looks like it. Marked 'Limoges'. Posted some pics, would like o hear some pros and cons on these unusual rifles!

---------- Post added 07-22-2012 at 12:01 AM ---------- Previous post was 07-21-2012 at 11:55 PM ----------

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_3531-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_3532-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_3533-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_3534-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_3535-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_3536-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_3537-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_3538-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Anzac15

The sling also seems a bit unusual, cant find a one that looks like it.

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The sling itself seems to be correct enough. It is the rectangular wire loop with an eye joining it to the barrel band that is not correct. For the MAS36 this should be a circular ring with a lug attached to the barrel band. I think you have the version for the MAT49 submachine gun.

That sling looks nicer than the ones that are typically on the MAS36. They usually have the ugliest color sling I've ever seen.

Cons:

No safety, hard to make a hunting rifle out of it.
Accuracy issues, not the most accurate rifle in the world
Ammo, getting difficult to find

Pros:

I've heard they are pleasant to shoot with light recoil for a small rifle, probably because they are rather heavy for a small rifle
Eye catching, either considiered ugly, or unique, the bolt alone with get you plenty of questions at the firing range
Condition is usually very good, most on the market were not used much and/or have been reconditioned
Interest is rising suggesting their value will increase at a more rapid pace, although this can be said for most milsurps.

I can't tell if your rifle has it's bayonet or not. Most do.

I've only owned mine for two weeks today and all I've done with it was apply a couple coats of linseed oil to it. My stock seemed very dry near the butt plate for some reason. I like the sights a lot better than some rifles.

Nice looking rifle. Passed on one at our last gun show in favor of a couple of K98s. Hope the fellow is at our show next weekend as I will join the MAS club.

Here's mine with the "correct" and very ugly sling:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MAS36005-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

Nice looking rifle. Passed on one at our last gun show in favor of a couple of K98s. Hope the fellow is at our show next weekend as I will join the MAS club.

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Pick up some ammo at the same time if you can. Seems to be getting hard to get. I got a few hundred rounds along with the rifle when I bought it. All appears to be French manufacture but all is also corrosive.

Yep, the rifle came with three boxes of FNM 7.5 French. Plus one box of crappy Syrian stuff. Going to take it to the range tomorrow, looking forward to seeing how it does.
I was tempted to pick up a correct sling for it today, but I kind of like this one. Cannot find a single sling online that even remotely resembles it. The swivel hook and the French stamps on it are the only indication that it's, well, French. Does appear to be some Arabic script on it as well. An Algerian connection, possibly?

I've heard the Syrian stuff isn't worth trying, bad primers or something. I was told all mine is French, should check it I guess. I believe it was repackaged in 20 round boxes.

Did some checking on my ammo and learned a few things.

What I have is two types. The first is 1970's French ammo for the MAS 36 in small blue grey boxes of 15. These are on stripper clips of 5 each. The second type is in white boxes of 20 held in place by white foam. This is also French from 1959 but was originally on belts for their machine guns. The importer stripped it off the belts and repackaged it. Both types are corrosive but also good quality.

The Syrian is salvageable if you remove the bullets and powder and re-use them in other cases or de-cap the primers and seat new ones, not that easy with Berdan primers. The powder is supposed to be good as are the bullets and brass.

Is the machine gun ammo supposedly safe for these rifles? I've seen some of that at the gun shows, but have always been a bit hesitant to fire it as most MG ammo is a bit hotter than standard rounds.

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Originally Posted by Anzac15

... Cannot find a single sling online that even remotely resembles it...

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Well try looking in FRENCH !!!

The french word for a rifle sling is "bretelle".

So search for "MAS49 bretelle". And you will find it.

BTW, the MAS49 was used in Algeria. Hence the Arabic writing???

Yep. Thought Algeria was a possibility. I've looked up slings for every French rifle since WW2, and I'll be damned if I can't find a match. I shall definitely try 'bretelle'...maybe that will be the clincher!

Well, found ONE match under 'bretelle'....it was pictured with a MAS 45 .22 trainer. But the rifle it was with had another sling with it, sooooo......
Found a pic, but not dead cert it's for a 45.

I'm not saying you didn't look hard, but "bretelle MAT 49" produced a bunch of useful images straight off the bat using Bing! search thingie on "my internets". First image for instance:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c69d0665-1.jpg

The two types of ammo are 1924C which is light ball for rifles and 1924D which is heavy ball for machine guns.

I can find no performance data for the 1924D but reloading data for heavier bullets show quite an improvement over the performance of the 1924C factory load so it appears the 1924C loading is well under the max for these rifles. Pressure for the 1924C is 40,000 at the breech according to "Cartridges of the World" by Frank Barnes. The 1924C uses a 140 grain bullet.

Lots of fellows are apparently using the 1924D with good results.

Good to hear on the ammo. Will be picking some up at the local gun show this weekend.
Sling appears definitely to be for a MAS 45 trainer. Found a French manual online that goes into a bit of detail on how to use it. It's referred to as a 'bretelle de tir'.
Now if I'd only stayed awake in those French classes....

Now I'm confused. Sling went from MAT 49 to "MAS 49" and now it's MAS 45?

MAS = Manufacture d'Armes de St. Etienne
MAT = Manufacture d'Armes de Tulle

MAS36 = rifle
MAT49 = submachine gun
MAS49 = French slr
MAS45 = training rifle, made in part by Mauser under French supervision (somebody please check that)

And, of course, like the M1907 sling, the same basic sling could be used for several different types of rifle.

The weapons were known- the sling application: Not!

So it's OK for all of the above?

And, yes, the MAS 45 was a Mauser product. Produced in a French factory, IIRC. There are even some with the Mauser banner. Supposed to be rare that way, but a friend picked one out of a crate years ago when they were imported in "large" numbers.

Yep, last MAS 45 I saw did indeed have a Mauser banner.

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Originally Posted by jmoore

The weapons were known ...

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OK, I wasn't sure exactly where the confusion lay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmoore

.., the sling application: Not! So it's OK for all of the above?

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That is not quite what I said. Bear with me for a moment, and look at these pics:

MAT49
http://www.naturabuy.fr/MAT-49-type-...em-480973.html
and here's another

http://www.naturabuy.fr/AK-47-Neutra...em-833698.html
and another

http://www.esistoire.fr/produit/MAT4...eutralise.html
This appears to be the type of sling that started the thread. The 3rd pic is probably the clearest, but I included the others to point out that it is not a one-off. Note the swivel attachment is different from a MAS36 or MAS49 (we'll come to them in a moment). It appears to be a wire twist loop combined with a snaphook fastener.

Now please look at this:
http://www.aassniper98.com/index.php?choix=11417
It is the same sling leather, but without the attachment. You can find plent of these by entering "MAS49 bretelle". And they are all offered without the fastener. And look to me just like the previous ones, as far as the leather is concerned.
The ring-formed sling loop I mentioned in a previous post is apparently considered to be a part of the rifle, not the sling, as I have not yet found a MAS sling offered that includes this ring.
The leather sling appears to be the same for the entire MAS family (36, 36/51, 49, 49/56).
And the difference to the MAT49 (or 49/54) APPEARS to be just this fixing, not the leather sling.

I.e. Same sling leather (at least, I have not yet spotted the difference), but a different sling loop (which seems to be regarded as part of the gun, at least for the MAS rifles).

Concluding a story that has become longer than I intended, Anzac15 needs the front sling loop - a MAS rifle part , not a sling part.
And then he can use the sling he already has, removing the wire twist loop and looping the leather through the loop that is part of the rifle.

That is how it seems to me, but you can search the internet and draw your own conclusions.

:wave:
Patrick

Here 'tis.....https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7/mas452-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tir02WEB-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e20tirGT-1.jpg

Good education on mid 20th century French slings (and attaching hardware)!

Boy, no kidding! Amazing what one can learn on this forum..enjoyed it guys!

Thanks for the photo - it seems to be the MAT49 sling on a MAS45 trainer. BTW, I have not yet found a photo of a sling that was made specifically for the trainer. Maybe the French just used whatever came to hand as MAS/MAT slings, adding the snaphook fastener if required.

Talk about slinging the bull....
Now you gentlemen have me interested in seeing what my MAS36 has for a sling on it. Will have to make a trip to the vault just to find out.

Ok you all inspired me. 2nd of three purchases today (see 1891 Argintine Mauser) My very own MAS36 FH prefix (manufacture date?) in fair condition all matching numbers except floor plate. It has a split on the top of the buttstock from the butt plate about 2" forward and some dents and scratches but the bayonet and sling are present and the bore looks very nice. There is supposed to be another I have seen previously (pristine example) at a show tomarrow so I may upgrade after one day of ownership.

And you are keeping us in suspense for purchase #3?

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

And you are keeping us in suspense for purchase #3?

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No just trying to delete some photos so I can upload more. It is a M44 1944 production. Nice and worthy of photos. No offers on the Saturday MAS so I passed on the really clean one.Fellow did however have a beautiful M39 BEAUTIFUL M39 Finn. Could not sell to out of state buyer (me) because of C&R regulations. Not ment to be I guess. A bit depressed ,but a good weekend over all.
PS: I was strong today and refused to let a No 4 Mk1 orphan sporter force me to take it home. Hated to leave her but the bore was shot out otherwise I would have another project of which I have plenty.`

Saw a very nice wartime MAS 36 today at the local fun show. It must have been made of gold, however, as the seller was asking a monumentally ridiculous price for it. "Well it IS a WW2 gun", he said.
"Well, there WERE more than one made", I wanted to say.
Nothing came home with me today, sad to say.

---------- Post added at 10:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------

While we're still on it, I see multiple references to the 'MAS 36/51'..is this a designation for post war '36s?

The MAS 36/51 is a post war rebuild with a grenade launcher.

Which is the only one I have. Kept thinking there'ss a MAS 49 (w/o the launcher, oddly) but it must be a delusion.

Saw a MAS 49 this weekend with no launcher. No kidding.

The reason I knew that is I basically collect WWI and WWII items and while my MAS 35 was produced after the war in 1952, it's still the "same" rifle as the pre-wars. I have seen a lot of the 36/51's around but none without the launcher for the longest time. With the launcher is definitely not WWII.

I do have the MAS 49/56 in the .308 conversion. Mine works flawlessly. Im a huge fan of semi automatics. And the MAS 49/56 is no exception. The disassembly of the rife is so different from other rifles in that it has a massive block of steel for a bolt. And its just fun to shoot.

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Originally Posted by Capt Mil Coll

I do have the MAS 49/56 in the .308 conversion. Mine works flawlessly. Im a huge fan of semi automatics. And the MAS 49/56 is no exception. The disassembly of the rife is so different from other rifles in that it has a massive block of steel for a bolt. And its just fun to shoot.

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Who did the conversion and have you had any issues with it? I've heard that depending on the importer, the conversions were miserable with some.

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Originally Posted by Anzac15

I see multiple references to the 'MAS 36/51'..is this a designation for post war '36s?

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Dunno about "rebuild" but here's one:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff002-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff019-1.jpg
"Non-script" prefix if that means anything.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff005-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff015-1.jpg