OSHKOSH Airshow...SAVAGE #4(T)...was it real?

Hello gents,

I was down at Oshkosh over the weekend with my son and some other family, and happened to run across a group of military re-enactors with a pile of WWII kit. Neat to see, alas, time constraints didn't let me go play with all of the toys, I DID get hands on with a Savage #4(T)....about which I have some questions...some things didn't quite seem right.

I'll post the photos, and let the experts weigh in...I told the owner I was slightly concerned for him that it may not be correct....but he mentioned that it was apparently a former Israeli Rifle so they may have done some of the work on it, and he wasn't worried.

Here's the photos:

The 'firing' line:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/094-1.jpg

The Enfields:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/095-1.jpg

The Israeli marked scope box:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/109-1.jpg

Inside:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/110-1.jpg

Remaining photos:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/102-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/107-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/096-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/099-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/105-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/100-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/104-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/108-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/101-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/098-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/098-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 10:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 PM ----------

Someone else had a nice jeep:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/030-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/029-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/031-1.jpg

An interesting setup with a holosight:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/041-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 PM ----------

And finally, NavyShooterJR and myself inside the waist of a B-17:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/024-1.jpg

Israeli 32 scope...one of the converted British scopes and not the Israeli made model. Nice bit of kit with Israeli marked can as well.
scarco sold off a small number of these in the late 80's along with the "made in Israel" ones.

Wow guns and airplaines. It just does not get any better. If I had a bucket list Oshkosh would be at the top of the list. Is it as good as I hear?

It was spectacular....I have a photo with over a dozen P-51's in it...and that was only the D models.....

Sensory overload for warbirds!

I know this is a bit off topic but what are the sights? on the 50 cal in the B17 ?
We really are the poor cousins when it comes to airshows etc here in Australia, that looks like an ideal day out!!!
Love the pics!!
Cheers
Ned

Those are some nice pictures, thanks for sharing.

The rear pad screws look wrong to me....... Should be slightly diagonal - higher at the rear to avoid the hard area

Peter, that was the first area I noted too....the fact as well that there are no stake marks on either front and rear pad.

trooper554877, The sight on the B-17's waist guns is a K13, lead computing, altitude, temperature, and air speed compensated. Late war add on...

Attachment 35589

Nice to see a Dakota there........ As a former paratrooper I always thought that I'd put myself out to parachute from a Dakota. Static line at 800 feet, Dakota........, yep, there's something about that after the run of the mill Hastings and Hercules of my era

Never jumped out of a DC-3/C47- more than about 6 feet, anyway! Got to fly one a bit on an overnight cargo run hauling car bumpers to St. Lous, though. Slept most of the flight back. Wonderful drone from those round motors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

The rear pad screws look wrong to me....... Should be slightly diagonal - higher at the rear to avoid the hard area

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whoops; you mean higher at the front to avoid the locking recess:

and it is


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/07/107-1.jpg

Beverly ....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmoore

Wonderful drone from those round motors.

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I grew up near the local airport. Lots of DC-3s flying cargo back then, loved the sound of them on final over my upstairs bedroom. Good Memories. Now many years later I live many miles south and is all MD-11s roaring over. No problem with the noise I suppose I'm Imune.

Yep, just had to re-check that L-E....... In fact that's made it look like the real McCoy to me now.

I note what Warren says about the Mk3 scope being a converted bog standard British one but if you file/polish out the original markings, you're getting pretty damn close to danger if you want to re-engrave. But it is what you see I suppose!

Interesting that it has two "T" stamps: the earlier, smaller 'add on' variety that armourers seem to have put on the earlier No.4(T)s when they came across them, and what looks a lot like the usual-sized "T" found on the later H&H conversions.

The finish on the front pad has the RSAF(E) look about it. I wonder if there was an Enfield inspection stamp on the top face? I almost think I can see a hint of something like this in one of the photos...Attachment 35592

I'm going to hazard a guess that this rifle was converted at Enfield, right at the end of their conversions, or very early in the H&H conversions when they were possibly using up pads they received from Enfield.

Very nice pics, thanks for sharing.

Looks like the body sides have splayed out a bit around the charger bridge. Someone had a go at undoing the front pad screws and wisely gave up.

Were all the firearms deactivated? A display like that in UK would only have "scrap metal" on display. Real guns being far to nasty for the public to lay eyes on:rolleyes:
And far to "portable", if you get my meaning.

The guns were live (at least the Bren, and the Enfields) The .50's in the airplane were not.

The rifle certainly looks kosher and the apparent problem with the rear pad seems to be a matter of prospective in the photograph. Pads were not staked on any of the early Savage rifles and the serial number puts in in the area of the converted rifles. The early ones are all OC, as Paul's is OC01 and mine is only a few digits away. The other batch all appear in the 15C range I believe.
The scope is interesting in that it is a British scope and is marked with the Israeli "war dept" marking on the turret body and I would love to see if it has been updated with the Israeli lenses. The Israeli made scopes look like a 32 but that is where it ends. Still working on the story of the Israeli scope but just no time this summer with projects that did not get done last year due to health reasons.