Peter? or Paratrooper--? on No. 5 Rifle Valise jump case.

During WWII, Britain made 2 heavy felt cases to fit the BREN and No. 4 rifle to protect them during container drops into Europe. They were later modified by adding a pocket and 20 foot strap attached so that the rifle could be lowered by the man prior to parachute landing. The No.4 rifle case was 8 x 44 inches.

The question is did they make a shorter case for the No.5 or just use the No.4 case and let the rifle slop around some? Thanks, p. If they had a new case, how long was it?

For some reason I could not add photos to this edit. I have posted pictures of the case further down this thread.

I never used anything but a container in my era and later, jumped light with just the parachute

Neither Peter nor Paratrooper, or even jump case but I hope you'll all bear with a slight related diversion.

There has been the odd thread on No 4/ No 5 cases and several have gone for highish sums on that site.

I dont have a No 5 but the attached shews my Nr 9 (ex Nr4) alongside a canvas case. I suspect this, and other cases were acquired by cadets in the past.

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/p...DSCF0047-1.jpg

The photo could be better but you should be able to make out that the case is 45 inches long from closure fold to tip.

We'll have to wait for a webbing expert to come along, but I'm fairly sure that UK airborne forces went to a 2-part weapon sleeve in 1944/5, and that this is more or less the same system that continues to the present day.

I have two heavy duty canvas weapon sleeves that might be WW2 issue, and I've jumped with the "modern" version that had an early 1950s date. Maybe one superseded the other.

There are two identical halves - both straight-sided bags, open at one end. The sides have webbing strips stitched in 3-4" loops (bit like larger version of molle). One bag slides on from the butt, one from the muzzle - the two bags allow any size weapon to be sleeved (or an artillery director stand, if you're particularly unlucky...). The bags overlap, and then are strapped to the main parachutist container through the loops. The rifle goes on the rope side, so that the rifle is on top of the container when the container hits the ground (in theory..).

I expect No5 was "jumped" in the same bags as the No4, or even carried on the parachutist himself - a la sten/ L2/L34/ GPMG/ etc.

They're called CESP's as I seem to remember. Container, Equipment, special purpose. There is a current 'weapons roll' but don't confuse these with anything else. They're just padded rolls used to ferry weapons

The one gunner 527 shows is just the standard rifle cover. The problem with that particular cover is that if the weapons are stored in them, the rifle can fester inside it

Attached are photographs of the Rifle Valise I was asking about. I didn't realize it was that uncommon?

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Originally Posted by breakeyp

Attached are photographs of the Rifle Valise I was asking about. I didn't realize it was that uncommon?

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Just a slightly rare No5 there i see

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Originally Posted by breakeyp

Attached are photographs of the Rifle Valise I was asking about. I didn't realize it was that uncommon?

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Is that valise even British? I don't see anything on it that resembles components used by Irwin in most British para kit since the war. It looks to me more like US or French. (I imagine you are now going to post a photo with the broad arrow and an NSN number.... lol)

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Originally Posted by Thunderbox

imagine you are now going to post a photo with the broad arrow

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Actually if you look at the tab end on one of the straps---you can see the broad arrow. Further the case is discussed in Gordon's excellent book, "Equipment of the WWII Tommy updated edition." I cannot recomment too hightly his three volulme set, equipment, weapons and uniforms.

Gordon says there are two sizes, BREN and No.4. I wonder if they made a shortened one for the No.5 as my picture shows the rifle seems to be the right size for this case. Hence the question.

The case discussion is interesting. Would it be poor form to ask about the rifle in the picture as I am not aquainted with that variation?

I did notice the broadarrow marking on the 'leg/harness' strap, but I also noticed the snap on the strap at the end of the case. It looks to be a pull the dot type seen on American kit. The stitching along th side of the case also doesn't look right to me.

I also have to ask myself wheter or not the single strap at the end would keep the rifle in the case upon parachute opening. I can envision a good, hard jolt sending the rifle right past the strap and on its way to terra firma.

That rifle is pictured in Skennerton's Lee Book and is one of a small group made up for paratroop trials. One version has a spring catch tongue and groove detachable butt and there exist two versions of the screw butt shown. One version has an Alumunum wrist and the other Brass. Apparently they were judged unacceptable.

Folding butts never improve with age. They always add to the cost and lower the quality. That having been said, I've got my steel helmet on and await the incoming fire.................

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Folding butts never improve with age. They always add to the cost and lower the quality. That having been said, I've got my steel helmet on and await the incoming fire.................

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INCOMING! They (foldibg stocks) do add to the collectors interest although I am quite certain that thought was not given much thought during the trials.