This Garand was found in the ardennes (Belgium) in a barn.
I want to share some pics.
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This Garand was found in the ardennes (Belgium) in a barn.
I want to share some pics.
It looks great for being in a barn.
But with the year of 4-44 that is on the barrel, shouldn't the trigger guard be the milled type and not the stamped type?
I knew a John Gelotti when I was in the Marine Corp stationed at MCAS Yuma in the early 80's ,Any relation?
wow, awesome!! when was it found?
have a great day
According to Canfield as well as Harrison, Springfield began using stamped trigger guards from about April of 1944, at that time they began appearing but the supplies on hand for the milled version were also being used up; Winchester only used the milled guard save for a few Win-13 rifles. As with any of this information errors do occur in research.Quote:
Originally Posted by AZPhil
WOW!!!!!!!!!! i cant believe that was found in a barn and looks like that.....All you got to do is clean off what looks like mildew (not realy sure) and you have a very nice m1 garand :super:....Post more when you find more history about it and hopefully you take to the range.
Well Thank you very much for that info Sarge! I wasn't sure of the exact date but thought it was later in the war. If that is the case then the OP found a diamond in the rough and it not that rough to Boot!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge1998
Very Nice. Thanks for sharing the Pic.
The rifle was full of dust and all the metal parts who are outside the wood has a "brown" shine. I think the trigger guard has to be correct for this (February/march 44) garand (serial 269XXXX), it has the same color as the rest of the metal parts and it was not easy to fieldstrip the rifle, I think this was years ago!
ok, you own a rifle that fought Ardennes, and god knows what else before... I do envy you a bit :)
have a great day
SARG 1998, I saw your post about Winchester using some stamped trigger guards in late Win 13 production. My questions, do you remember where you saw this published ? also would Winchester have applied their drawing number ? would there be a difference in production as compared to SA ?
It was my understanding that Winchester used the milled trigger guard to the end -
I have collected early Winchesters since the 80's but never really got past 1941 except for one '42 example
Collecting the Garand II, A Collector's Field Guide by J.C. Harrison, picked this up at CMP North. Page 35 Type 7, WRA Stamped mentions Rare use on WIN-13 rifles only. The bottom right corner of Page 34 shows a drawing for a WRA Stamped WIN-13, additional explanation of unique features are listed next to Type 7 description on page 35. How he determined this or what he based this information on I have no idea, which is why I added that last statement. Hope that helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
I never had any of Harrison's books on firearms due to the amount of incorrect data. I would disagree with his stamped WRA trigger guard story until some supporting documentation was to surface that would prove without a doubt that Winchester manufactured a stamped trigger guard.
Even Scott Duff's book on the WW2 Garand states that Winchester used the forged type trigger guard until the end of production.
I have seen alot of data sheets on Winchester rifles including the Win 13's but never a stamped trigger guard.
That is an awesome find!:) I can tell you will take good care of it. We would all like more
detailed photos when you can. I am very jealous!:D
Tom
Please never use Harrisons book for a reference. It is full of bad info and horrible cartouche copies that the forger use so when you put them over the fakes they look real. Rick B
No photographs exist but there is a picture of one that somebody drew. What more proof do you need?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge1998
Very nice find indeed!
So... Is it still in Belgium? Just curious how it got back to the US. If it is back in the US it's a truly rare bird indeed! Because as we all know, EVERY Garand that came back the traditional way was torn apart and rebuilt. This one having been left behind is the only one I've ever seen in its original WWII condition. Nice!...
Several years ago the GCA Journal featured two such rifles -- one was picked up by a Free French fighter during the battle for Brest. The other was found in a barn. Both were still over there, were acquired by a European collector.
"Springfield M1 serial 2742717 was recovered by Jo (Joseph) Gentil from the body of an American GI who had been killed on the morning of August 27, 1944 during the capture of the village of Plousané in western France. He also took the cartridge belt and left his German Mauser rifle next to the fallen GI. The American soldier was a member of the 29th Infantry Division, 2nd Battalion, 175th Infantry Regiment, and had been killed in combat in the cemetery around the church in Plousané. Gentil was from the village and was part of the Free French resistance group of Saint Renan about five miles to the north. These partisans fought alongside the US 29th Infantry Division for the liberation of Le Conquet peninsula that includes the city of Brest."
John Gelotti is in Belgium. I would guess that's where the rifle is also.Quote:
Originally Posted by oneshot onekill
Yes guys, I live in Belgium, a few miles from the Ardennes and also close to the French border.
I have not found the rifle by myself. A few people who know that I am very interested in ww2 have taken contact when they found it. I make lots of travel to the European battlefields (Ardennes, Normandy, etc...) so if you have any questions about this, feel free to ask.
I was wondering, what are the legalities of relic hunting over there? A friend and I were considering a trip to France, Belgium, and Germany to search for WWII artifacts
I'll have to disappoint you but relic hunt in is not allowed in Belgium and France. As we all know it is still happening but I think it's good that the Government is strict against illegal relic hunt. One of the last times when I was In the Ardennes there where many places in the forests near Bastogne where you still could see fox holes, bunkers etc.. those were full of trash.My opinion is to leave all those places as they where and have respect for those grounds. You still must come to Belgium and France, there are hundreds of monuments and numerous museums where thousands of artifacts are exhibited.
I can understand why the governments would not want people taking the artifacts. I mean, I didn't intend to leave with a truck load of them but I guess it's one of those things where if everyone takes something, eventually there's nothing left.
But I still have every desire to visit France and Belgium even if I can't take home some relics. I would love to see the battlefields, especially Normandy and the Ardennes since on my last trip to France I didn't get to see much outside of Paris and Strasbourg. It's such an incredible feeling standing on the same ground that some of the bravest men in history fought on.
These M-1's are turning up all over. I am active duty army, and spent a year in Afghanistan (3-2006 thru 4-2007). While in Khandahar, my unti was staying at the SF area, and They had confiscated weapons there. 1 was a M-1 Garand that was found in a farmers haybale, with 5 rounds of Greek ammo. These guys only knew what it was. I got to talking with em, and ended cleaning it real good for them. This rifle now sit in the JFK Special Warfare Museum, at Fort Bragg, NC. Bad thing is, they had to demill it before bringing it home. Barrel and action welded and plugged.