? Fake parts m1 carbine

aS A NOVICE i WAS LOOKING FOR A FLIP SIGHT FOR MY ARSENAL REBUILD Irwin Petersen .
Got on Gunbroker and waited for a couple of day and one came up for auction.put a bid in for 150 and one it for 135. That night i joined this site and started reading about the fake part dealers such as George ,Riverbank Armory. Much to my dismay I found out that abcleigh was the same individual that i got the sight from . I have not paid for it yet so here is my dilemma . Should i not to pay and ruin my A+ rating or just take my lumps and pay for a repro RP irwin sight that is only worth about 15 dollars. My inclination is to just go ahead and pay but it does p---s me off .Any comments would be greatly appreciated
Chuck Lobrano

How would you feel if you had bought five or ten or maybe twenty over a two to three year period and then found out they were fakes. What is your A+ rating worth?

Did the auction text state that the sight was original, or that it was an Irwin Petersen sight. If so, then you could do the following: write to the seller and say, avoiding any emotional adjectives, that as the price is only justified for an original and you cannot inspect the object before purchase, you require a guarantee of that originality before paying.

If the auction text did not make any such statement, then you are stuck with the options you already outlined - lose your money or your rating. Personally, I would keep my money.

Recommendation: Many sellers of fake items never describe them as "US GI". Before bidding, register on the auction board, send a message asking if the item is "Original US GI".

If you get a vague answer, do not purchase. If you get a nasty answer claiming many have put out bad information, do not purchase. If you get no answer, do not purchase. If you do not get a statement that it is "US GI", do not purchase.

Remember each seller and their response to your questions.

Thanks for all the replies , The listing was as following "M1 Carbine IP flip sight RP/RP" It makes no mention of originality except
that it is used [Description] Also the inspection time is unspecified. I include the link for the item M1 Carbine IP flip sight RP/RP : Other Gun Accessories & Parts at GunBroker.com
I was not trying to bring the old rifle back to restored condition
because it has to many thing that are mismatched [Stock Winchester Trigger group Inland ect} I just liked the Type one sight .I still don't like being deceived and paying a price of an original when it is not. I was going on the fact that he stated that it was a used IP as stated not a repo. I think just for the record I will do as Mr Chadwick
recommends and write him back and say since I could not inspect it before purchase that I would expect it to be original.
Bubba you are correct I should not "worry " too much about a rating but I must admit my conscious gets to me because I did entered an auction and bidded. Thanks for all the rec and I will in the future try to follow Mr Ricca's advice. Does an one sell
original parts such as the particular sight that i need
Chuck Lobrano

There is no written description whatsoever on the item except for the title. You won it, now pay for it. You can't impose your own restrictions AFTER bidding on it. You bid on the auction as it was presented, and won it. If you decide to not honor the agreement you consented to by bidding, you will become a 'non-paying bidder' which pretty much is the 'kiss of death' on an auction site. If I sold an item and the buyer started asking questions after he won it, I would be incensed. This has never happened, because I give good descriptions with full disclosure as far as my knowledge permits. I have been on ebay since 1998 and GB since 2000, and based on what I've seen on the link provided, you would have no grounds for any action against the seller unless you pay and he fails to send you the exact item pictured.

To the OP,
You are concerned about your GB rating?
You might want to look over your recent buys from Sam-T-Bob...

FWIW,
Charlie-painter777

Thanks Inland for your input . As stated in my post my conscious would keep me honoring what I bought . I have no intentions of not paying the full amount of not only that item but the other two that I bought . My rating on Gunbroker is of second nature although I have bought other things from other people that now seem to have a checkered past due to Mr Painter comment . . I have spoken a few times to Sam-t-Bob [Sam Ransum] and he always seemed to be up front about the rifles I bought saying they were project guns that he had restored to their original configuration as best as he could . He never once told me they were "original" ww2 carbines .I guess he is another person that has gotten a bad reputation from this forum because I guess he restores with fake parts obtained from abcleigh or L and S Supply or any other of the plethora of merchants that deal in reproduction parts. The only thing that I was p--s about is that it was advertised as an IP flip sight with rp/rp. It was no such thing .It was a reproduction part that had lettering rp on the side and base . It had nothing to do with original Irwin Pedersen. Therefore it had everything to do with fraud in it's presentation . But no less I had no intention of not paying due to my ignorance.I just wanted to have input from people on this site as to who might be the most offensive of the replica dealers.I have over 20 M1 Carbines now that I have collected over the past 15 years . All are in their ww2 configuration . I obtained most from my cousin who has been collecting for the past 45 years . He has advised me to be careful but occasionally I have strayed from his reservation and bought guns on my own [such as Sam t Bob] and been burned but my cousin always told me that 98% or more of these rifles have in some way been reassembled by troops,restored by collectors or rebuilt by the armories. He has over 100 carbines of which he says that the only a couple were what he considered bring backs that have never been touched by collectors, shysters , restorers or any other individuals. The only thing that he said is if you want to put part on the rifle always try to get an original one . He does not get on forums but usually only deals with friends that collect also and goes to Gunshows so he knew nothing of abcleigh. But he did know of the reputation of RiverbankArmory in California .I collect these old Rifles for my own personal reasons and have no intention of ever selling them for profit or investment . I enjoy seeing them "restored " to their original configuration just as I enjoy seeing an old antique car restored to it's original state however I do not like being deceived about fake parts that presented as original manufactures . Again I will state it was my ignorance and I have full intentions of paying !!!!! Gunbroker rating or not .All I really would like to know at this point who are the merchants that have a reputation as selling these counterfeit parts or better yet who are some individuals who are know for their honesty and sell quality parts so individuals can avoid this in the future.

Sorry about the length but i felt that some of my comments were misconceived
Thank You again
Chuck Lobrano

I don't want to offend any one because I am a newbie to this forum but I am not knowledgeable on abbreviations
Could you tell me what OP and FWIW stand for

OP= Original poster (in most cases) FWIW= For what it's worth (in most cases). Don't feel bad, I have to look up stuff from time to time.

OP; Opening Poster
FWIW; For what it's worth.

It was not my intention to offend you. I wanted to give you a heads up about the S-T-B restorations and reproduction stock stampings.

Don't blame you for being upset about the misrepresented part. It is a out right fake/repro.
Your not alone, many have been taken by George.

Many buy from Riverbank, M1 carbineparts, ABC leigh... etc knowing they are buying repro and listing on other auction sites, for profit, stiffing other buyers.
Here's an example:
Authentic Type 1A??

It would be a shorter list of 'Who to buy from'.
You've dealt with the GB seller 81mm aka Eddy Yuja, none better in my opinion.
Mr. Bill Ricca is also a stand up guy.

Just My Opinion......
Sammy and his partners were also good sellers at one time, but over the last few years have followed the wrong path.

Welcome to the forum Charles, we'd enjoy you sharing your finds with us in the future.
Stay tuned, we try very hard to draw attention to fake parts and sellers of the same. Prices are too high to take these $$ beatings.
Sellers like George count on the fact that buyers with character will follow thru with their sale. When you leave his deserved Feedback, he'll come back with some ruthless tyrade that will make zero sense.

VR,
Charlie-painter777

Anectine,

First welcome to the carbine forum.

You are not offending anyone. Most of us feel that the sellers of questionable parts are the offenders.

You mention your cousin. Forty five years of collecting carries a lot of knowledge. If I were you I'd draw on that as much as possible. Having twenty of your own I'm sure has given you some insight.

The guys on this forum are also very knowledgeable. Questions are presented all the time, and answered. We have a search feature that lets you review past posts on different subjects. I'm sorry you received your answer after instead of before your purchase.

We look forward to your participation.

Jim

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Originally Posted by ANECTINE

I don't want to offend any one because I am a newbie to this forum but I am not knowledgeable on abbreviations
Could you tell me what OP and FWIW stand for

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Originally Posted by ANECTINE

aS A NOVICE ...

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seems to be contradicted by

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Originally Posted by ANECTINE

I have over 20 M1 Carbines now that I have collected over the past 15 years .

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And the close-up photos were clear enough. Having seen the auction presentation, I am inclined to agree with Inland44 - you are rather stuck with this one.

No offense taken Mr Painter and I appreciate the people on this forum that are trying to help. I must admit
that Inland post was a little heavy handed considering that the item I bought was listed as IP sight . I believe iP sight means IP sight
whether in the heading or description That is what I was bidding on and that is what I expected .The sight that I ended up winning in no way was an Irwin Pedersen as was given in the heading. If you become incensed when someone questions you after the purchase of a falsely presented item then in my humble opinion you are hiding something. No one becomes incensed if they are legitimate and their items that they are selling are legitimate .
But enough said at this point for I have learned as Mr Ricca said to read and be very wary . I will also utilize the expertise of the
forum members and my cousin before I venture off the reservation again.
Again Thank you Chuck lobrano

Chuck,

OP is original post, or original poster. FWIW is "for what it's worth." If you do some research on this site, you should be able to find some links for legitimate carbine parts suppliers. I've even got suspect stuff from recommended sites, though. A good way to tell is to study pictures of known original parts and then do your own comparisons with the ones you see offered for sale. I spend a lot of time at gun shows looking at carbines and parts to practice honing up on my skills. Please stick around, and good luck finding the sight that you need. I've got one on an S'G' that's marked B-IP. That's one that would work for you too. - Bob

Again this is in response to Mr Chadwick now . I am not arrogant enough to believe I am an expert because I own
20 rifles. Most of these were bought from my cousin and a few that have already been pointed out from Sam t bob
who has now been brought to my attention may not be up and up. i will continue to learn and just because the members of
this site have the ability to spot a fake sight from pictures is commendable. I still will say I have full intentions of paying for this
false and misrepresented sight. But it was falsely presented as an IP in the heading and was fake. One other thing I do not believe that to be an expert is how much or many you own and find no contraindication in owning 20 rifles and being a novice in the recognition of fake parts. Just for instance I have purchased and collected lugers for over 30 years and now have over 60 individual pieces but in no way do I consider myself an expert even though I have read many books about them and looked at many them and also belong to 2 forums.
I may be very familiar with them but I will not take on the title of expert and still consider myself a novice in many ways. I got on this forum for information and a few have attempted to give it to me while others have thought I am just trying to not pay for fake items. I usually don't write this much but for some reason the comments on this forum have been more cynical than I am use to and to state that I have contradicted myself is putting me in the group of fake dealers that I am complaining about and is insulting to me in it's highest form
Chuck Lobrano

I want to add this . Believe me if there is another gun that has been boosted in the past it is the Luger . I have bought fake parts and really questionable pistol much to my dismay. It has taken me a considerable time to realize that I should not ever buy on my own and I usually do use the expertise of individual [esp my cousin] when it come to purchases . The truth of the matter it that I have made some really bad ones but I have learned from them . that is the reason that I looked for an m1 forum like the luger forums that I have been a member for years. Those forums have been extremely helpful
Chuck Lobrano

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Originally Posted by ANECTINE

to state that I have contradicted myself is putting me in the group of fake dealers that I am complaining about and is insulting to me in it's highest form

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Good heavens, I really did not mean it like that, and I very much regret that you take it so. I did not state that you had contradicted yourself, which would be a claim, but that there seemed to be a contradiction, which is a querying comment that you have answered.

Sorry Mr Chadwick but since I may have taken it the wrong way I apologize . I appreciate all of the opinions and help and if I offended
any one I am sorry .Seems like many people have been taken advantage of especially by abcleigh ect and this is a sensitive subject I will catch enough grief from my cousin for not asking him first. I will have to sign off for a few days because I live in Long Beach Mississippi about 50 mile east of New Orleans and we are expecting to lose power in a little while secondary to Hurricane Isaac . Winds are just starting to pick up
Thanks for the help
Chuck Lobrano

Thanks Bob I enjoy the carbines and have purchased mostly from my cousin who has been obtaining them for many years .He is now 75 years old and has offered me some of his duplicates because he has decided to let some of his collections go due to his health and age . The particular rifle that I picked up was an old arsenal rework that had been in storage from another "collector "BOb Sinclair in The Baton Rouge LA area . He is one of my cousins old friends. Long story my cousin has known about these carbines for years and the man had obtained them in the late sixties. My cousin said that back then all of those collectors never tried to turn those guns to ww2 configs because they did not believe in changing them and believe that in their original state was the best Any how Bob is about in his mid 70ties and decided to let my cousin have the 10 of his 20 carbines .My cousin is a formal appraiser and made an offer to him. It included an Irwin Pedersen rebuild and my cousin offered it to me since he had two. I first saw the rifle wrapped in an oil cloth and packed in a very old leather case. It had been in storage for a long time. i was not interested in an old arsenal rebuild but my Cousin said it was a very good Korean war example and Bob was a very old collector[even was the President of the Carbine Society]So I purchased it for 1800 which my cousin said was very fair. Since all my other carbine are 1st model config I really wanted to put the sight on that was of that time frame . My cousin did not agree but
he said he would change it if I would find a correct original sight . if you are willing to part with your original sight I would certainly be interested . If you send me an message back and maybe your telephone number I can contact you. I probably will be losing power in the next couple of hours due to hurricane Isaac because i live on the gulf coast of Mississippi 50 miles east of new Orleans . Again look forward to hearing back
Chuck Lobrano

I personally would not hold any decision against you in regard to the seller.

I need some Red Bull to keep up with this one.

DO NOT pay for it. Let that son of a B$#&^ resell it again.

Chuck,

I don't think anyone has been offended, and I hope you have not either. I would guess the topic of fake parts gets the ire of most of us on here. On expensive parts it might not hurt to ask for an inspection period like you do for a weapon.

Get through the hurricane safely.

Jim

Chuck, I think the lesson we can all learn from this is: if in doubt, post it on the forum before committing yourself. Any rifle or part will then be scrutinized by masses of experienced and expert eyeballs. You quite correctly mentioned Lugers, which over here are perhaps the most notorious field for "stamp upgrading", followed closely by any K98k with Nazi-era markings. I have observed that unnumbered parts fetch more than numbered parts - easy to guess why!

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Originally Posted by INLAND44

you would have no grounds for any action against the seller unless you pay and he fails to send you the exact item pictured.

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Anectine:

I'm sorry for your situation - I've been there before. You are just the guy with more money than knowledge that these 'gentlemen' purveyors of cheap Chinese knock-offs are fishing for. I must agree 100% with Inland44. You read it, you bid it, you bought and you should pay for it. It's the right thing to do. BUT, I read the auction page and Inland44 is rigth-on correct that you bid on and bought the sight PICTURED. If you pay for it and you do not receive the exact sight pictured then you have been defrauded and you can file a claim with GB and maybe impact his rating. I don't know if this swings any weight with ABCLeigh but I think it's the only honorable recourse you have. Sometimes the humpers are too lazy to photograph and post every item when they buy them by the gross, so they photo one of the batch and then just post it in all of their auctions. I would e-mail ABCLeigh and advise him that you suspect the sight is not genuine USGI as you believed when you bid and REQUEST that you be released from your sale contract. If he refuses to release you then tell him that you expect the exact sight pictured and if you do not receive the exact sight you bid on then you will post negative feedback and file a claim of fraudulent business practice against him with GB. Even better if you happened to pay with Paypal as I believe they may insure you against this sort of thing. He might just say forget it rather than take damage to his own rep. He refunded my bid on a 'mis-described' stock a few years ago. If you receive the sight pictured in the auction then take it as a lesson learned, like a true gentleman. I hope it works out for you.

Thanks Chip for all the advice. As I stated in previous replies that I was going to pay for the item no matter what .
I am chalking this up to my ignorance and naivety and have already paid Mr abcleigh ,Mitzi Leigh ,
m1carbine parts man or George as is affectionately called on this forum.Take your pick what his true name is .As for being defrauded
I agree it was my own fault for expecting when someone post "M1Carbine Irwin Pedersen with rp/rp" and on top of that
describes it as used that it would be an original. You don't sound 100% with the other fellow because you are
recommending that I question the seller after I won the bid.This would incense him as Inland 44 said. I am just as satisfied paying and leaving this gentleman
to still sell his fake parts using his fallacious advertisements but with one less sap like me that will purchase from him. The main thing that I wanted was to find out who may sell original parts and some on this forum have been very helpful with that

Chuck Lobrano

Good Morning Gentlemen
Sorry for all these post but since am I glad that I found this forum I now have an ability to
get expert help. I just found an ebay listing that I thought was very interesting and need to know
what others thought . It was a individual that would look at particular item on ebay for m1 carbines and
give you his opinion on it's authenticity. I will include his response to me "Dear charleslo,

What do you want to know,if I can help I will for free. I mostly just put this up occasioanlly because I get sick of these crooks selling these fake parts. Most of what is sold here is fake. Let me know what item number you are questioning and if I can help I am glad to. These people have did alot of damage to the Carbine collector world and if my ad slows their practices or makes people think it is worth it...Thanks


- tylerp2896

Personally this is a great way to combat all of the gentlemen peddlers of fake parts . If I had the expertise and wished to
try to limit the amount of damage to carbine community this would be a great way to help. It would also attract new people to this site . Please I am just throwing this out for discussion and not endorsing or condoning this practice but if people are serious about
trying to help making the unscrupulous merchants hurt a little what a unique way of combating it . Just a lowly newbies opinion.If this gentleman and his advertisement is legitimate he needs to be applauded and praised for his convictions rather than just comments. It is a shame that so many know of this merchants{abcleigh] deceptive and somehow he continues. Like I have admitted I am one of the lowly saps that fell for it but like so many of you have advised I will utilize the experts in the future
Thank You Again
Chuck Lobrano

These people who do this become criminals in my thoughts the second they decide to stamp a fake part. The second they do it, they set a course to decieve and rip people off. I would not pay for it as his intention from the start was to decieve someone. Does not matter if he did not claim original or not. Being purposly vague is just the same as claiming it is real. There is no differance when you initially set out to rip someone off,does not matter if you say the item is real or fake or not. You know it is because you made it and have the obligation to say so. If you do not you are just what he is a CROOK and DO NOT PAY FOR IT.

You discovered it is fake so why on earth would you pay him for it. As stated he set the plan in motion when he made the fake part,he is responsible if the transaction is not followed through,not you. He damn well knew it was fake and he is a criminal. Do not support his criminal behavior..There are laws that are supposed to protect you from Fraud,but if the Law will not, take it on yourself to do so.

You have just as much obligation to state a item is fake as you do to state it is original if you knew before selling it and he surely did know and should have stated so. By not stating the fact it was fake,and he knew it was fake, he is a criminal that committed intentional fraud and who set out to rip you off long before you ever saw his ad,he set out weeks ago to defraud you.. Well actually years ago but why nitpick.

I hope my use of the word "criminal" so many times got the point across. LOL Thanks

I would never feel obligated to purchase fake and fradulent merchandise. You made a mistake and bid.

Lesson learned. Let him eat it.

That is about the best slant you can put on this guy. "You bought it, he didn't say therefore you are obligated to pay" might work for a legitimate part, but these people conspired to make a fake part and cheat people. It is a criminal enterprise from start to finish. I would welcome any legal action or bad feedback this guy would do. You then have the chance to say it out loud.

First, I don't know ABCLeigh, or whatever name he might go by, and I don't really care if ANECTINE pays him or not. I know that almost everything ABC sells is reproduction and I paid $ as a beginning collector for that knowledge. I asume that GunBroker rules are about the same as ebay & all the other auction sites - a winning bid is a CONTRACT. I am not a lawyer but I believe that if there is no definitive evidence (writings, images, witnessed oral claim, etc.) to prove intentional fraud then I must assume the the contract is valid and enforcable. In my opinion ABCLeigh did not say the sight was an original USGI WWII item nor did he say the words 'Irwin Pedersen' on his auction page. He did not say anything about the item in a descriptive sentence, other than maybe the shipping cost. ANECTINE interpretted the TITLE of the auction to describe an ORIGINAL M1 Carbine sight manufactured by or for Irwin Pederson in WWII for installation on an Irwin Pedersen M1 Carbine. In my opinion he had no right to make that interpretation and if he did do so without further study and inquiry then he should not be relieved of his responsibilities under the terms of the contract. I believe defacto fraud was perpetrated but I cannot prove it because no claim of originallity was ever made by the seller. If ABC sends ANECTINE the sight that was shown and purchased then I believe ABC has fulfilled his part of the contract and so should ANECTINE. If not then where does it end but in 'every man make his own rules' chaos.

Finally, I can understand how some members believe ABCLeigh is a criminal, counterfeiting (sp) a$$hole and nobody should have to pay for any of his auction items. But, until we get a Federal law regulating interstate on-line commerce (be damn careful of what you wish for - you might get it) the watchwords are 'caveat emptor', and always have been. We have to use our common sense in all transactions - particularly on-line where we can not see the item before the bid or the person selling it. I am not a Democrat. I do not blame someone else for my ignorance or stupidity and I do not selectively interpret our laws and morays to best suit my own purpose at the time and I do not consider it to be my 'right' to force others to make me whole again when I step in it, just because I don't think I got a fair shake.

For you 'old time, Harry Truman' Democrats out there, I am very sorry to be so blunt but you are a vanishing breed and the shortcomings of character I describe above seem to me to be the rule of the day. IMHO as long as people put up with it out of political correctness we will continue on toward oblivion. To ANECTINE, I don't mean to demean you in any way, particularly since you appear to be ready to take responsibility for your own actions. Like I said before, I have been there and learned from it, and so will you.

End rant here. Semper Fi. ChipS

Again I take no offense from your comment because you are correct that did pay for the item
even though through this forum and my own more critical observation it is an obvious fake.
I have also learned that even if the item is listed as M1 Carbine Irwin Pedersen flip site rp/rp
that you can't even believe that . Again I am thankful for the comments both for and against
paying for the item, I do believe however in disagreement with you Chip that it was listed as above
and it was a fraudulent and deceptive listing even if in the
quote" description "it only had 6 dollar shipping, Just a question who puts the top listing down on any given item that is placed on GunBroker . If this gentleman put down Irwin Pedersen sight marked rp/rp I don't know how that is not a description of originality. There is no more an Irwin Pedersen factory or subcontractor making these items for an m1 so I would assume that an unsuspecting person
is going to get rip off by a Chinese knock off that has nothing to do with Irwin Pedersen. It looks like there are a lot of us out there and I fully accept the title of naive sap. And knowing my type of personality I did pay for it but I like so many others would like to see this type of practice stopped and the only way to do it is taking action that some on this forum suggested and not pay an obvious forgery . I was to lazy and certainly could not challenge the person because I am neither an expert or quite sure if M1Carbine Irwin Pedersen flip site marked rp/rp as described is really not one if it is not located in the description box. But this has been a great lessen for me . It was not about the money that so much as just the red a-- that I got when I found out about these fake items that are being passed off as original by these
shysters out there . I appreciate all that has been said and so long there is money to be made at this there will be ignorant suckers like me there buying this stuff[me excluded now ] but in the long run this will only hurt people that are trying to have a great hobby of collecting these old rifles
Thanks again
Chuck Lobrano

"There is no honor among thieves."

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Originally Posted by ANECTINE

Again I take no offense from your comment because you are correct that did pay for the item
even though through this forum and my own more critical observation it is an obvious fake.
I have also learned that even if the item is listed as M1 Carbine Irwin Pedersen flip site rp/rp
that you can't even believe that . Again I am thankful for the comments both for and against
paying for the item, I do believe however in disagreement with you Chip that it was listed as above
and it was a fraudulent and deceptive listing even if in the
quote" description "it only had 6 dollar shipping, Just a question who puts the top listing down on any given item that is placed on GunBroker . If this gentleman put down Irwin Pedersen sight marked rp/rp I don't know how that is not a description of originality. There is no more an Irwin Pedersen factory or subcontractor making these items for an m1 so I would assume that an unsuspecting person
is going to get rip off by a Chinese knock off that has nothing to do with Irwin Pedersen. It looks like there are a lot of us out there and I fully accept the title of naive sap. And knowing my type of personality I did pay for it but I like so many others would like to see this type of practice stopped and the only way to do it is taking action that some on this forum suggested and not pay an obvious forgery . I was to lazy and certainly could not challenge the person because I am neither an expert or quite sure if M1Carbine Irwin Pedersen flip site marked rp/rp as described is really not one if it is not located in the description box. But this has been a great lessen for me . It was not about the money that so much as just the red a-- that I got when I found out about these fake items that are being passed off as original by these
shysters out there . I appreciate all that has been said and so long there is money to be made at this there will be ignorant suckers like me there buying this stuff[me excluded now ] but in the long run this will only hurt people that are trying to have a great hobby of collecting these old rifles
Thanks again
Chuck Lobrano

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You are spot on Chuck. It was not made for a IP in WWII and he damn well knew that. Does not matter what he said or did not say,he was selling what he represented as a IP sight. It was sold as a IP sight and it is obviously not and he damn well knew it was not. Just listing it in the auction with IP markings is enough to imply it is real and it should not have been made and sold. The seller is the one with the obligation to tell you if it is fake or real when he knows that fact. I assure you he knew it was fake.

It is not a IP sight and never should have been listed as one. Thats fraud right there.

I applaud you for not wanting to welch on the deal and that shows good character, but this is a time when it would have been OK in my opinion.

Gunbroker Sucks. If they had any kind of respect for their buyers they would stand behind them if you were to back out and stop any negative reflection on you if he tried to leave you negative feedback.

I no longer buy anything from Gunbroker. They could care less what happens to the buyers on there. They also are impossible to communicate with. Do not do any buisness with Gunbroker either.

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Originally Posted by ANECTINE

But this has been a great lessen for me . It was not about the money that so much as just the red a-- that I got when I found out about these fake items that are being passed off as original by these
shysters out there .

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Chuck:

I did not accuse you of being stupid or lazy. I do believe you were ignorant of the facts that the seller is a known fraud and the sight is obviously a fake. There is no shame in ignorance. We are all ignorant of everything in life until we are educated. You are now educated about this seller and his fraudulent goods. You are not lazy - you are trusting and assume that most people share your sense of ethics and morality. Well, many don't and now you know. You struck a chord in me when you said it's not the money, it's the anger and embarrassment that you were cheated and the cheat will get away with it. That is exactly how I felt when it happened to me. The money can be replaced but re-building your self-esteem and trust in other people takes a little longer. Don't feel bad, I would wager every member of this forum has had the same experience at least once in their collecting life.

I keep a list of the parts fakers, bait & switch artists, creative writers (or non-writers) and strategic photographers that I have had the misfortune to deal with. No matter how good their parts look and sound I never bid on them - simply because I cannot count on receiving what I think I'm bidding on and they rarely offer an inspection period. I have never welched on a deal but I agree with a lot of the comments here in that if any seller deserved to get screwed on a deal ABC (or other aliases) is the one who deserves it most. Keep your eyes open, buy a couple books and pay attention to this and other collector forums and you will not be cheated too many more times before you can smell it coming. Good fortune. ChipS

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Originally Posted by ChipS

I keep a list of the parts fakers, bait & switch artists, creative writers (or non-writers)

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I've seen one guy who lists barrel bands for sale on auction sites stating 100% USGI TYPE I BARREL BAND. The swivels are fake.

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Originally Posted by tenOC

I've seen one guy who lists barrel bands for sale on auction sites stating 100% USGI TYPE I BARREL BAND. The swivels are fake.

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There are many, many, many more sellers peddling knock-offs now than there were 5 or 10 years ago and you are correct, many/most of them advertise as 'original WWII USGI', or something in that line. Some are good fakes and some are ridiculous - IMO all are or should be criminal. Up until about a month ago when eBay sold their misguided conscience (sp) to the devil and dropped their anti-gun embargo, I'd say 90% of their carbine parts were repro. In my opinion it is worse to lie about the originality of a collector part for sale than to say nothing and let the buyer assume, but either way it should be criminal.

Gentlemen, for those of you who have not studied 100's of these carbine collector parts (real and fake) you had better get wise because the people selling them don't give damn about you unless you are a relative, friend or partner in crime; the auction sites facilitating the fraud don't give a damn about you unless you are a high volume seller/buyer/dealer making them a lot of money; and the district attorneys don't give a damn about you unless you have political clout and reside/vote in the same state as the crook seller. This is one reason I have been trying to quit for some time, so far without complete success. The fakers are getting better and bolder every year so if you can't afford to throw away the cost of an expensive carbine part then you better research it well before you lay out the cash. I'm sorry but that is just the way it is. I often wish it could be like the 1950's or 60's again when it wasn't nearly so bad and there was still some honor and respect in the collecting communities, but that ship has sailed forever. JMHO ChipS

Know who you are buying from.

Honor and respect is still around. Not everyone is trying to take advantage of people.

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Originally Posted by JimF4M1s

Honor and respect is still around. Not everyone is trying to take advantage of people.

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I stand corrected. Yes, this is true. I didn't mean for my observation to sound so absolute.

thanks Chip for your reply .In no way did I think you accussed of anything . I was more a self critique. Your post was greatly appreciated .
The parts arrived and now i have them for reference
Chuck