1903 Cocking Problem - Hi, Newbie Here With Odd Problem.

Hello eveyrone. New here and I could use some help in isolating potential causes for what I think is an unusual problem in cocking my sporterized 1903, 1942 vintage.

This gun was my father-in-laws and I suspect the problem with cocking has been around since day he had this gun built for him probably back in the late '50's. It has a stock low profile bolt but mated up with a non-milspec barrel.

I've been shooting this at the range feeding one round at a time just for sighting purposes and testing some new handloads. When I tried to cock it with the gun shouldered in a shooting position, I noticed that I can't complete the rotation in order to draw the bolt back unless I pull it down into my gut so to speak so I can complete the last 10-12 degrees of rotation.

There seems to be a definite hangup or resistance. When I took the bold out of the sleeve, I noticed that three of the thread lands on the bolt were showing "bright" metal as if it were binding there. I don't have a bore scope to look at the mating threads inside the sleeve. I can't visualize how a turned part can have a high spot one the male threads so it must be something else that's causing the resistance.

It was suggested the issue is with the safety. I know it isn't the trigger sear. I installed a new Timney trigger and there's no difference in the action between it and the stock trigger. The gun is sitting at the gunsmith waiting it' turn in line. I'm going to retrieve it today so I can disassemble the bolt completely in order to inspect for any funny business with the safety but I honestly don't know what I'm suppose to be looking for.

Is there anyone out there that had the same problem? Or, does anyone have any suggestion as what I should be looking at? Once I have the gun back home, I can take photos of bolt components if that would help. The attached photo is suppose to show the approximate rotation before it starts to develop the high resistance. Once it's cocked then repeated bolt action is smooth as glass.

I really hate to have to get a complete new bolt assembly. I'll never be able to duplicate the blueing on the back portion of the bolt nor on the new safety switch. The entire sleeve and bolt handle is polished which I probably can accomplish since I have the wheels for that.

Thanks for any guidance and help.

Hello and welcome. Here is just a thought.... if your bolt handle was welded or heated when it was modified, it could have distorted, causing the drag on the bolt shroud threads.

Welcome to the forum, Bob. Could be the cocking piece. I had a hard to open bolt with that problem. You'll have to disassemble the bolt and inspect.

Mike

Bob,
Welcome to the forum, a couple things that come to mind:
1. Remove your bolt and take a punch or something to depress the trigger sear, the point that your bolt is binding seems to about the time that your cocking and trigger sears should be ramping over eachother. If your new trigger sear is not dropping down far enough I could see where that might be the problem. Your timney sear should depress at least flush with the channel bottom.
2. I've ran into 03 bolts before that had been put together without the collar on the main spring and firing pin. The spring coils would climb over the shoulder of the firing pin and bind.

Chances are the threads are shiny because that is where the stress is transmitted to, if it worked fine before the trigger install, then I would put my money on #1.
Please let us know what you find.

Sorry, my bad,,, I missed the part where you said the previous trigger did the same thing,,, go with #2. As simple as it seems I ran into one that several seasoned gentlemen had been looking at and they all overlooked the spring collar.

replace you bolt assembly...your problem will be fixed. poorly done bolt handle, and suspect cocking rod.

I suspect that your problem is a damaged extraction cam on the back of your bolt. You will note that the bolt handle root is part of a swell on the rear of the bolt. The swell ends with an extraction cam directly opposite the bolt handle. The cam bears against a beveled shoulder in the left rear of the receiver bridge. When the bolt handle is lifted, the extraction cam bears against the beveled shoulder to extract the cartridge. Extraction doesn't engage until about the last 15 degrees of bolt rotation.

I note that your bolt handle has been cut, re-shaped, and re-welded to clear a telescope. I speculate that the extraction cam was damaged when the bolt handle was modified. In any event, a little grease on the cam wouldn't hurt.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

Thank you all for your input and suggestions. The attached pic is courtesy of Numrich which I did a little photo editing by "lightening" up of area on the threads of the bolt sleeve to show where there is obvious binding or interference.

The other pic shows the underside of the bolt handle and an area of the "V" notch cam outlined in red. Timney suggested filling that in with JB Weld. Why do I want to do that?

Went to the gun shop yesterday. Compared mine with another 1903 with a higher serial number and my bolt handle shaft isn't as heavy as the original. Two other guys tried cocking it with the same results so it's not my old age and tendonitis that's culprit. The gunsmith promise to look at it last night and get back to me by Friday. We'll see.

Thanks again for all the help.
Bob

The interference you describe on your bolt sleeve threads is not likely your problem. Bolt sleeve thread interference would be continuous and not likely restricted to the last 10-12 degrees of bolt rotation.

The V-notch cam in your photo is the cocking cam. I see nothing wrong with it. You absolutely MUST NOT fill that with JB Weld. That is not likely the source of your problem.

Please provide us a photo of the bolt directly opposite of the photo you provided. That may reveal your problem.

J.B.

a new bolt assembly...thats the cure... its not that tough....really.
so ill get long and drawn out...

heres the reason,.
your bolt hand was heated, bent, ground on by bubba, when they did this they removed the camming area were the savety sleeve rotates and locks into place.
also, i would suspect they didnt use a heat sink when they did this work, and warped the bolt, making the cocking cam rough, bent and almost not usable,
if you look at the first picture you posted, theres a large gap from the safety sleeve and the back of the bolt...you should have no gap, the crappy bent handle is also pushing the sleeve back as well, when they installed the aftermarket scope safety, chances are the ground on the cocking rod to make it fit, rather then take time, and do it right.
again...remove the POS bolt, and buy a good bolt assembly that works good, and youll be up and running.

Allen and all the rest of you guys....THANKS for you input. Sorry I didn't get back to you all sooner. Went to the gunsmith and he still hasn't looked it.

Anyway, Allen, this to me seems to be the problem. Somehow during the welding of the bolt, the area just ahead of it was heated to the extent that it could have stress relieved causing a distortion sufficient enough to create a high spot in the internal acme threads. If I had a set of plug guages or GO/NO GO gauges, I could confirm this. The problem is I don't know what the engineering drawings have for the diameter and tolerances. What is curious about this theory is if heating caused the deformation, then why doesn't the interference scoring appear on both the major and minor diameter of the male thread. The top of the male threads is what shows the marks but not the bottom (root?) of the thread. Those look untouched. Sorry for the non-technical description for threads.

Then comes the corrective action. Can these threads by dressed or chased or otherwise cleaned up and fixed. If not, then it seems that a completely new bolt assembly is needed. Since these are Mil-Spec items and theoretically interchangeable from one gun to another, should there be any concern over proper headspace? The part of the defense industry in which I spent over 20 years, all of our products were MIL-Spec items and were totally interchangeable, intermateable and intermountable. I was told not to count on that relative to this rifle. My last resort was to buy a new replacement bolt assembly from Numrich. Is it possible to just drop a new bolt in? They have one for low scopes with a special bent bolt handle but no one at Numrich can tell me it that was for a sporterized '03. The current safety is an Numrich aftermarket so I'm guessing the entire bolt assembly should work except for maybe some removal of more stock material to accomodate a slightly fatter/wider bolt shank.

I really don't want to have to buy a new gun just to go big hog hunting. My 30-30 lever gun was sufficient for my 210 lb hog but not for the 400 lb versions that are out there now. Neither is my Big Boy Henry 45 Colt either.

Bob,
I won't even speculate as to why the parts are rubbing as you describe, and possibly they could be fixed......but I have to go with Chuck on this.....New bolt. The new bolt will PROBABLY head space fine, but it should be checked. Bolts were not intended or expected to be completely interchangeable. Too many tolerances that stack up. Bolts are relatively cheap. An entirely new complete bolt can be had for 75. Your bigger challenge might be the scope clearance. Good chance the standard USGI handle will hit your scope, hence the reason for the modifications to yours. You can find modified bolts fairly easily....just look for one that was done well. i've included a reference link as an example only. Your g-smith might have some under his bench in a shoe box too.

WW2 WW1 Springfield 1903 03A3 Gun Bolt Bent for a Scope & Swept Gun Part Parts | eBay

you wont gain anything with Gunparts made bolt, youll be in the same boat, you get what you pay for. you need to replace the complete assembly. cocking assembly and all, someone has damaged that one beyond safe repair and use.

I had all the intentions of bringing the gun back home today but relented. I'm giving the gunsmith one more shot at this. He "promised" an answer by Saturday. If it doesn't have one, I'll bring the gun back home, disassemble the bolt and take all the photos that I should have done in the first place. This problem is extremely difficult to explain without the photos. I totally agree with you regarding the use of a heat sink when welding. The "smith" probably didn't use one. I think he was more of a wood guy. The birds eye maple stock sure is "purrdy".

You mentioned a "good bolt assembly". Who makes one for this rifle? I can't find anything in Brownells other than those for Mauser and Numrich is the only one I found so far for 1903 Springfields. If here's another manufacturer and not just a distributor, please point me in the right direction. What do you think about head space issues using another aftermarket bolt?

Just as an aside, I need to get this gun working correctly so I can go on just one more big pig hunt before I hang it up. I'm gonna be an old geezer next year...70... and I feel the need to go out one more time. Just ordered a Ruger Redhawk 44mag as a new sidearm and if I can't get this
'06 to work right, I'm going to have to get another big bore rifle. My old "undergunned" Marlin 30-30 was OK for the 210 pounder I nailed on the run with one shot at 30-40 yards 25 years ago, (being High-Gun on my trap team with my old Reminton Model 58 helped) but it ain't gonna cut it with those big 400+ lb hogs running around these days.

I believe chuckindenver makes the bolts.


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Well, if we're talking about Chuck...why not just send him the gun and let him sort it out? That is once the other gunsmith falls on his face. Chuck loves a clean-up job...