H&R M65 question and observations

Hello All,
I purchased an H&R M65 that some of you may have seen in a recent auction. This rifle has some markings I have not seen on this model before. Any rifle that has been around for almost 70yrs will collect unusual markings and alterations. We often see rifles tapped for a scope branded as "Sniper", Redfield sights make a "National Match" or threaded barrels create the top secret gun designed to kill Hitler. Often the same rifle is discussed on several Forums giving the impression that there are many guns with a particular curiosity.
So I am a skeptic. Are these original Ordnance markings? Let me know your thoughts.
My M65 has a worn light gray Parkerized finish, receiver has the usual markings plus a Flaming Bomb stamp.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...sing0021-1.jpg

Typical markings on the barrel plus Flaming Bomb

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ising004-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ising003-1.jpg

A "P" behind the trigger guard.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ising007-1.jpg

USMC is stamped on the side of the stock and under the butt plate. An assembly number is found on the butt and plate.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ising008-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ising010-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ising011-1.jpg

Finally, a comparison of the M65 / civilian M165 trigger assemblies.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ising016-1.jpg

Military Reisings do not have flaming bombs , circled Ps , nor USMC stampings . These are all added fakes . Please don't tell us that the serial number is below 5,000 or so.
Chris

Have a couple M65's..have never seen any of the stampings...did get a nos stock from numrich several years ago which i believe was for the MC58..safety slot in trigger guard..that stock did have the small post war eagle cartouche

Thanks for the info. I suspected the markings were added to the rifle by a later owner. Seller told me he purchased the rifle from a Quantico Marine armorer. I don't think an amorer would apply these stamps at that level.
I hope it shoots well.
Serial number 51XX.
Probably sell it.

Arghhhhh. Crap.
The MC-58 serial number range starts at 6,000 . Some believe this is where the military M65 production ended and the higher # M65s went to the DSC for shipment to where ever they were needed ( me included ) . Others believe that some higher #s are USMC issue , too .
Doesn't matter in this case. Your M65 was indeed a USMC WW2 trainer . Pox on the stamper and the horse he rode in on.
Chris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by emmagee1917

Arghhhhh. Crap.
The MC-58 serial number range starts at 6,000 . Some believe this is where the military M65 production ended and the higher # M65s went to the DSC for shipment to where ever they were needed ( me included ) . Others believe that some higher #s are USMC issue , too .
Doesn't matter in this case. Your M65 was indeed a USMC WW2 trainer . Pox on the stamper and the horse he rode in on.
Chris

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Please explain your referances for this. Also don't understant that the MC-58 serial number starts at 6000.
Frank

The USMC was a small group , manpowerwise , compared to , say , the army . The M65 was designed for them so that they may have a trainer in .22 ( in 1943 ). The first production all went to them. When that was completed , H&R applied for permission to continue production in 1944 . This was granted . At this time any raw materials being delivered and guns made had to have the blessings of the govt . Can't have people using up valuable resources on non-essential products. In the 50's the USMC had H&R make the MC-58 for them . This was close to the M65 in design , there only being a few changes . They requested that the serial numbers start at 6,000 . They delivered less tham 3,500 of them , and they run between 6,000 to around 9,500 . The above are facts , the following is opinion .

The why of this mc-58 numbering is unknown , as is the number of M65s procured in WW2 . One theory was that they bought 5-6,000 M65s , numbered 1-6,000 , and were continuing from there on the MC-58 purchase . To me , due to the size of the USMC and the short space of time a single man might be using a .22 ( most never saw , much less used one ) , 5-6,000 rifles seems more than enough . If we accept that theory , then any rifle under 6,000 must be considered a military issued rifle . Those above 6,000 are not and were DSC guns that could have went anywhere . To other military branches as recreational firearms , US forest service for Beaver control , plants and RRs and PDs for guard / officer training , farmers for crop pest control , etc.. If you believe the USMC made further purchases after 6,000 , what proof do you offer ? If you believe that the USMC bought less than 6,000 , well , except for the "proof " above , I can offer no other , so I'm on shakey ground.

So , untill further documentation is found , this is what we have. The pic of this gun looks to be one that was used a lot , but not abused . It is 70 years old , but it looks like most low numbered guns which I feel would be indicative of a range gun. Again , just an opinion.
Chris

emmagge1917 I am sorry. I had a senior moment and misread the M-58 as M-65.
I have both the M-65 and M-58 rifles in my collection.
Thanks again. Others I am sure was not aware of this valuable info.
I have M-65 #1964 which is special to me as that is the year I was married to my wonderful wife.
Frank

Interesting... My H&R65 came to me from a WWII Marine vet who was on Guadalcanal and then thru the islands. A demolition man, he re enlisted after the war for another hitch.
Mine has USMC stamped right above the SN (46XX). Both serial and USMC look similar in age
I.E. the USMC does not appear bright inside the stamping. He said he brought it home after he got out.

By any chance is your front sight lacking the protective wings ? Is there exposed threads on the barrel forward of the front sight ? If no threads are visable , is there a light knurling between the front sight and the muzzle ?
There are no records of the "USMC" being applied by the factory. If so , they would hae been a roll stamp or a single stamp. Look at how the letters align and see if they were one or four separate strikes . See how in the above pics the letters are way misaligned in one pic and fairly aligned in the other ( but there you can see the boxes from the individual stamp dies ) .
Chris

My m65 has front sight wings and is not threaded. The USMC stamp is spaced and aligned well but the M is silghtly below the other letters. My best guess is it was an armorer who applied the stamp.
My late friend from whom I got the rifle said it was on there when he got it while in the Corps.