New Jungle Carbine Day!

Hi everybody!

I just joined and wanted to say hi by showing off my newest acquisition, a 1947 BSA Shirley No5 Mk1 that I just found at a local gun shop I frequent. It's extremely clean with probably 80%+ original finish, and no import marks. It has typical British export marks.

It's all matching except for the Savage marked magazine and Mark 2 flip sight. I just picked up a BSA marked Mark 1 sight from Numrich, and am looking for a BSA marked magazine (with no serial if possible) to complete the rifle.

This rifle will be my fifth Lee Enfield, I have two No4 Mk 1s, a No4 Mk2, and another No5 Mk 1 that came into the country in the early 2000's from Indonesia I think. It's all matching and has the mystery shellac coating that everybody loves so much.

I've been very impressed with this forum as I've been lurking around and am looking forward to sharing with y'all!

Here are a few pics of my collection and my new baby! :)

Cheers,
Chris

P.S. the Bobby helmet in the first pic is a helmet that my Grandfather traded for from a Bobby that saved his butt in a bar fight in Birkenhead during the war. I have a picture of the Bobby somewhere... :confused:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...09/brits-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jungle_1-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jungle_2-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jungle_3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jungle_4-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jungle_5-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jungle_6-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jungle_7-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jungle_8-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jungle_9-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ungle_10-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ungle_11-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ungle_12-1.jpg

Very nice rifle you have there! Nice find. I wonder if she shoots as good as she looks.

It might be a while before I get a chance to try it out. Most of my collection is in exile with my folks along with my small (and getting smaller) stash of HXP while I'm in school.

I might give it a try with a box of commercial if I can find a box locally. I'll see.

It has an amazing bore, but that's never a perfect indicator of accuracy.

My no4mk2 is unissued and the worst shooter of my collection. My beat up No5 with a very dark bore from Indonesia and my REALLY beat No4Mk1 are my two best shooters.

I'm pretty excited about this rifle, as I've been looking for a nice Shirley for years.

Cheers,
Chris

An extremely nice rifle and a very good find.

Can I just point out though that those are not British "export marks", they are simply British proof marks. Any weapon passing through the gun trade in the UK (including military surplus sales) must be proofed by law at one of the Proof Houses, London or Birmingham.

Regards
TonyE

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Originally Posted by TonyE

An extremely nice rifle and a very good find.

Can I just point out though that those are not British "export marks", they are simply British proof marks. Any weapon passing through the gun trade in the UK (including military surplus sales) must be proofed by law at one of the Proof Houses, London or Birmingham.

Regards
TonyE

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Maybe Chris is referring to the 'ENGLAND' stamp on the left wrist. While not a 'typical British export marks', it is the 'country of origin mark' required by the a U.S. Tariff Act on imports to the U.S. before 1968?

Thanks for the semantic clarification. I knew the proof marks happened when the rifle left service, but assumed the England mark was done for general export. I didn't realize that it was a US requirement. I assumed there was no requirement before 1968. Thanks again for the clarification. This is actually my first Enfield without post-68 importer marks.

Cheers,
Chris

Chris, if I've got this right yours was proofed at Birmingham 1954 or later, and imported to the States not later than 1968, kinda narrows down the window. I also have pre and post 1968 No.5 imports, the latter a CAI beater possibly from Indonesia/region as well. I treasure my earlier 'ENGLAND' import, a FAZ 45. If you're ever near Phoenix let me invite you for an Enfield shoot. Cheers, Don

Thanks Don. Yeah, this rifle is definitely one of the jewels in my collection along with my M1 Garand, and my CMP M1 Carbine and 1903A3.

My other No5 is also a CAI import that I bought through AIM in the early 2000's (maybe 2005 or '06... I don't have my database around right now). It's actually quite nice compared to others I've seen from that same release form Century.

Cheers,
Chris

Would like to see the badge on the Police helmet!

About as clean as they come...nice find! since the commercial proving was done at the B'ham Proofhouse, you should have a date code somewhere. Look for a small stamp that looks like the pic below and see if you can read the letter in the left hand quadrant. That will be the year the proof was done.
Attachment 36724

I'd be interested to know what it is in this case...trying to see if it's possible to loosely fit dates with the "ENGLAND" import stamp.

Jrhead, is there a typical location for that stamp? I'll take a look for it this evening.

Peter, the helmet is in storage but I'll make an effort to retrieve it soonish... :-)

My Grandfather was a Swede with a notorious appetite for vodka. Apparently the owner of the helmet saved my grandpa from getting his ear cut off after he drunkenly insulted the wrong man. ;-)

I was able to find a No5 last month and it had a Savage mag as well. Hmmm. . .

Where?

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Jrhead, is there a typical location for that stamp? I'll take a look for it this evening.

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It's usually somewhere near the rest of the proof data. On yours, it looked to me like it might be right behind the "18.5 Tons per Square inch" stamp, but the shadow from the handguard is obscuring it.

Cool. I'll check it out later tonight.

Drool worthy jungle carbine, nice wood patterns and the end cap, all a combo I'd be stoked to have safe in my safe. Welcome to the forum, and btw the knowledge library here is one of those places a reference museum would be proud to own and a place to get lost in too.

Yeah... I've been perusing it a bit. Great stuff. Also, I think I recognize some names from the Lee Enfield forum I used to frequent in the early aughts.

It's good to be here!

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Originally Posted by jrhead75

About as clean as they come...nice find! since the commercial proving was done at the B'ham Proofhouse, you should have a date code somewhere. Look for a small stamp that looks like the pic below and see if you can read the letter in the left hand quadrant. That will be the year the proof was done.
Attachment 36724

I'd be interested to know what it is in this case...trying to see if it's possible to loosely fit dates with the "ENGLAND" import stamp.

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This is about as good as I can get with the lens I have...

Cheers,
Chris

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ungle_13-1.jpg

I wouldn't worry too much about which manufacturers magazine is on any No4 or 5 rifle. We'd check the tightness ans security of every magazine and generally, certainly with Army rifles they'd come through our big workshops numbered to the rifle. If not, and it was tight and secure, we'd just bar the old number out and re-number. We had a mandril that we'd use to stamp them over. You can always tell when a butcher has done it as the stamps would put big dents the magazine as well. Otherwise we'd engrave the numbers.

Magazines with worn back straps would be put in a box and when there were a big heap of them we'd machine off a small length of the back strap and the welders would silver solder a small section of new back strap on. They'd come back to us and we'd make good and linish out any old numbers if possible or just barr out as necessary. But we'd leave the backstrap slightly oversize. They'd all go through the phosphating plant, paint and be put back on the shelf ready to re-fit to another rifle and re-use.

I don't say that I have ever specially picked out any particular magazine for any particular rifle. In the real working world, we didn't have concourse events.......... It didn't work like that I'm afraid!

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This is about as good as I can get with the lens I have...

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It looks to me like it's a 'P' which would point to it being done sometime in the early/mid '60s (1963/1964-ish, going by memory). Fits nicely with the few other dates I've managed to get.

Jrhead, thanks for the info!

Peter, I'm actually less concerned with the maker of the magazine than I am with the condition of the current magazine itself as it's kind of hammered. It's the only part on the rifle with any wear. In fact, I'm also looking for a new Faz magazine to replace the serialed (matching) mag on my other No5 because it tends to jam on the last round. All of the rifles in my collection are shooters first.

Cheers,
Chris

A magazine where the last round jambs indicates a platform fault in that there isn't a round below it (as in the first 9 rounds) to put it at the correct feed angle. Ideally during what we call 'the twilight zone' or 'no mans land' when the round is neither fully in the magazine nor partially in the chamber, it should be being guided slightly left or right (depending on which side it's being fed from.....) and into the opening of the chamber. Too high and it runs/stubs itself into the top ledge at the rear face of the barrel. Too low and it can't do that due to angular features of the nose but hangs up on the feed lips. Once the nose is in the opening, it's home and dry so to speak and a good shove of the bolt is all that's needed.

What I'm actually saying in a long winded way is that I'd try correcting the mag platform/spring or try a new one before you discard a decent magazine. anyway, what is it that you're shooting on your avtar

Sorry all about going off at a bit of a tangent but if you're all aware of this, just ignore it

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

what is it that you're shooting on your avtar

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It looks like a M1 Carbine

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Originally Posted by jrhead75

It looks to me like it's a 'P' which would point to it being done sometime in the early/mid '60s (1963/1964-ish, going by memory). Fits nicely with the few other dates I've managed to get.

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If this site is correct, and it seems a useful site, it tends to confirm 1964: Proof Date Codes. Thanks jrhead75. I look forward to getting back to Arizona for the winter and checking all my Birmingham proof mark date codes. Semper Fi, Kilo One Actual 3/4 0104971

Thanks Peter, that's very helpful!

In my avatar I'm shooting my CMP '44 Inland M1 Carbine. It's one of my favorites. It's from the first group of carbines that came in from Italy a few years ago.

Cheers,
Chris