M1 Carbine-All WWII Original?

Hi Folks!

Today, in the latest episode of "What the Heck Did I Buy?" we have an M1 Carbine I purchased at auction Saturday.

I'm a novice at military arms of all kinds, but here (I think) are the essentials ...

M1 Carbine
General Motors Inland Division
Serial 5380103
Rear sight marked "H.I."
Front sight marked "N"
Stock has no arsenal rebuild stamps
Round bolt
Side-by-side mag release and safety

You'll find a few images below. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Dave

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../09/M1C1-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../09/M1C2-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../09/M1C3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../09/M1C4-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../09/M1C5-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../09/M1C6-1.jpg

I'm not sure if the round bolts were WWII era or not. I guess I should go get the book I have. I guess the rear sight might be a question too, but I think some were saying it might have been used as early as WWII. Although I think it's a more later style adjustable sight. Isn't that a "type III" guys?

Is it a high wood stock? Can't tell by the pictures.

doubt it

The type 3 round bolt started about Feb. 1944. It was a standard bolt for the M1 carbine and was the only bolt being made and used by the end of carbine production in April 1944 for almost all the makers except Inland and Winchester who used it till the end of their production in the late summer of 1945. Standard Products was the only other maker that did not use the type 3 bolt before ending their contracts to make carbines.

The rear sight is a type 2 milled sight made for Inland. The carbine appears to be in original configuration for the serial number but that would also depend on what is inside.

Is that barrel date 7-44? I've got an Inland with s/n 5,413,XXX that has an 8-44 barrel. Everything looks right to me including the blued round bolt, "M" mag release, push safety, Type 5 slide, "N" front sight, Type II rear sight, Type II barrel band, and 4 rivet handguard. In my opinion the oiler is upside down - not sure if the sling should be tan or OD, but that's not a big deal. - Bob

Looks identical to a 5.4 million original I have. Barrel date on mine is 8-44. I believe it is original.

My pet peeve is people trying to recreate a WWII appearance by replacing a type III barrel band with a type I or type II. That almost always leaves a type III shadow on the fore end of the stock and barrel. To me, that's an indication of whether or not it's been fooled with. I see no indication of that on yours. Good find!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ABPOS

Is it a high wood stock? Can't tell by the pictures.

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The cutout in the lower portion of the stock is approximately 9.75 inches long. I believe that makes it a "low wood" stock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by USGI

Is that barrel date 7-44?

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Yes, the barrel date is 7-44.

Oh, and by the way, I'm responsible for the oiler being upside down =(

Thanks to all!
Dave

---------- Post added at 11:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 PM ----------

Oh, and another question while I'm here ...

What I thought might be corrosion on some of the parts, particularly the barrel, has turned out to be heavily caked lubricant of some kind.

I was able to clean the barrel with Hoppe's No. 9, and it looks nearly new now. But I think I need something with more pressure and penetration to clean some other of parts, like the rear sight. Is it safe to use a "Gun Scrubber" type cleaner (like a spray brake cleaner) on the finish of these guns?

Thanks again!
Dave

Gun Scrubber or brake cleaner won't hurt the metal finish on your Carbine, but take the metal out of the wood. Use an old toothbrush on the heavily coated areas. The finish will probably appear lighter when you get all the old grease and oil out of the finish, but a coat of oil will return it to original color.

Dave, that's a beautiful little gun, congrats on your purchase.
Jim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Johnny Peppers

Gun Scrubber or brake cleaner won't hurt the metal finish on your Carbine, but take the metal out of the wood.

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Is there a trick to loosening the front barrel band screw with marring it? It's very oddly shaped. (I've heard that's to fit a .30 carbine cartridge. Is that an urban legend?)

Thanks!
Dave

dbuf,you did good,i think my eyes see a cannon cartouch ,right side
h--hemphill co

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blazer91

Dave, that's a beautiful little gun, congrats on your purchase.

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Many thanks! I was lucky :o

Now, speaking of lucky, here's the really good news ... It functions perfectly, and in some casual short-range plinking, it seems to group quite well.

I'm really, really, really tempted to put a scope mount on it. That way, I could seriously test its accuracy. (IMHO, most guns are accurate, just hobbled by bad sights, bad ammo and bad technique.)

However, I suspect some folks here would string me up for modifying a USGI original gun :yikes:

Thanks!
Dave

---------- Post added at 09:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 AM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mannparks

dbuf,you did good,i think my eyes see a cannon cartouch ,right side

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Two or three inches forward of the oiler? I've looked and looked and looked at that, and I can't tell if it's there (or if I'm seeing the face of Elvis on a pumpkin).

In either case, what would that indicate?

Thanks!
Dave

Use a screwdriver of the correct size. There are many good sets out there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbuffington

Is there a trick to loosening the front barrel band screw with marring it? It's very oddly shaped. (I've heard that's to fit a .30 carbine cartridge. Is that an urban legend?)

Thanks!
Dave

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The use of a carbine cartridge case to undo the screw is true. Designed that way so a screw driver was not needed to help do maintenance.

Now IF you should even think of putting a scope on it you will be hung by your feet and lowered into a pit of hungry gators.

[I'm really, really, really tempted to put a scope mount on it]

naww, i don't like that idea.---charles

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill

Now IF you should even think of putting a scope on it you will be hung by your feet and lowered into a pit of hungry gators.

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Eeek! :surrender:

Thanks!
Dave

---------- Post added at 11:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 AM ----------

BTW, here's my new toy in action. My wingman, Drew, is at the trigger ...

M1 Carbine - YouTube

It was designed to use a cratridge case, IN THE FIELD. They didn't care about marring the screw during a war.

If you are worried about marring the screw on the band, you might consider buying a good screwdriver tip set. Using the correct size tip will keep you from putting marks on the head of the screw.

But hey, who cares. You can find replacement band screws all over the place, right?

The band screws are normally upset on the end where they won't come all the way out. You can force them out, but stand a chance of buggering the threads in the band. There is really no need to take it all the way out anyway.

You could get one of those barrel mounting rails that don't hurt anything put a red dot or scout scope on it. I wouldn't alter anything on the rifle itself. That would be a HUGE shame. It's your rifle, but it just doesn't seem very wise. You might be able to find a bunged up receiver somewhere if you want to build one up for that. When I bought mine, some guy drilled and tapped the side and I didn't know it. And I didn't know enough to raise a stink with the seller back then. But it probably makes mine not worth anything. I'm kind of irritated about it in the end though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimF4M1s

But hey, who cares. You can find replacement band screws all over the place, right?

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haha, I'm a newb but I can recognize a funny, or at least I assume you are being funny.
Jim

Thats a very nice Inland. Yes we would string you up if you did any modifications to mount a scope. As stated by somone else they do make the mounts that require no mods to the actual Carbine itself..Very nice and enjoy it. They are a part of our History and very Fun to boot.

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Originally Posted by carbineone

They are a part of our History and very Fun to boot.

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I've never had much of an interest in military arms, but this thing appeals to both the sentimental fool in me and the little kid in me. The original plan was to buy it for resale, but somehow, I think it's found a home :D

Thanks!
Dave

about 2% escaped rebuild, you have one of the 2%. It is what all of these part swappers are trying to reproduce, you already have the real thing. Don't mess it up, don't sand it.

Do not use brake cleaner or gun scrubber on the carbine. Use any dry-cleaning solvent like Naptha (lighter fluid, charcoal lighter) and a toothbrush. Oil liberally after cleaning.

For viewing the Ordnance acceptance stamp (cartouche) on the stock, take it into the sunlight and view from an angle - it will pop right out at you. I have almost the same carbine, but it didn't start out that way - it's a few months earlier, 2-44, but somehow managed to get some of the upgrades over the years, but not the Type III band or flip safety.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../IN44c1a-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9/RHside-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Bandmark-1.jpg

I have to agree. You have a rare, unmolested WW II vintage weapon. Ever since I foolishly sold a DCM Winchester M1 with early features (in 1982 or so) to get one with cool features like bayonet lug and adjustable sight, I have kicked myself and looked for another unmolested Carbine. Thirty years later I finally just tripped across another I can afford, and grabbed it. They are very scarce!

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Originally Posted by INLAND44

For viewing the Ordnance acceptance stamp (cartouche) on the stock, take it into the sunlight and view from an angle

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Will do. Thanks!

Quote:

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I have almost the same carbine, but it didn't start out that way - it's a few months earlier, 2-44, but somehow managed to get some of the upgrades over the years, but not the Type III band or flip safety.

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What upgrades did it get?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by INLAND44

Do not use brake cleaner or gun scrubber on the carbine. Use any dry-cleaning solvent like Naptha (lighter fluid, charcoal lighter) and a toothbrush. Oil liberally after cleaning.

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If you are going to disagree, wouldn't it help to tell why you shouldn't use either of the products?

Johnny; There was no intention to 'call you out' on the issue. I had actually skipped a page and had not read your comment on Gunscrubber.
The harsher solvents can bleach the patina out of Parkerizing by removing the old oil and linseed oil stains. They will not harm any metal parts. I feel like they are too strong to use on old guns except as a degreaser for refinishing. I used them for general gun cleaning for many years but not any more. Its definitely better IMO to take the gun apart and clean each piece with either a 'one-step' product like CLP or use a mild dry-cleaning solvent as mentioned, followed by a lube/protectant. There are also 'in-between' spray products like Amsoil MP that safely flush out most residues in assemblies like trigger housings while leaving metal protection.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by INLAND44

The harsher solvents can bleach the patina out of Parkerizing by removing the old oil and linseed oil stains. They will not harm any metal parts.

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Indeed, while cleaning around the heavily gunked rear sight, I found that a relatively mild cleaner (Hoppes Elite) slightly bleached the Parkerizing. I've used the Elite cleaner on dozens of guns, and I've never seen that happen before. Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by INLAND44

The harsher solvents can bleach the patina out of Parkerizing by removing the old oil and linseed oil stains.

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Good point! - Been there and done that. - Bob

Many owners of old guns will not clean them at all because they don't even want to lose 'closet dust'. I'm not in that camp yet, but I sure do remember cleaning a carbine barrel one day that had about 50% Park, kind of spotty, and my shock when I saw how bad it looked after blasting it with brake cleaner. In some cases, 'squeaky clean' is not the best idea. :(

So is brake cleaner as bad as gun scrubber? I have a bolt I want to clean up and I'm trying decide if I want to break it down, or just give it a rinse. Not a carbine bolt though. A .22 Win 67.

They all contain mixtures of Tetrachloroethylene , perchloroethylene , and dichloromethane . Prety much the same stuff , although brands will vary on the mix and strength . Difference is brake cleaner doesn't say "gun" on it , so it's much cheeper.
Chris

Yeah, but should I not use it on an old bolt from a winny 67? I should probably just tear it apart. I have a good video for it. Sorry for the off topic. I was wanting to be lazy and take the easy way out.

I have used brake cleaner on my guns for 30-40 years now . Never a problem . However , my guns are "Old School " wood and steel. No plastics on them and I don't let it get on the wood . Mostly use it in the bores prior to the Outer's foul-outs and to remove solvents prior to oiling . Good on assembled trigger groups and bolts , too. I use cheep "Part's Master " brand mostly as it's weaker . I save the more expensive " Berryman 's " for real cruddy multi thousand round belt fed cleanings. Does not seem to harm park or blued finishes themselves , but does remove cosmoline quite well.
Chris

Great. That helps me a ton!!!

I have used brake cleaner on really fouled M1 Carbine and AR-15 bolts/carriers. If you soak it and use an empty case with its rim hooked under the extractor, you can work the ejector to help free it up. Dis-assembly, however, is the best bet.