Correct grade or not correct grade that is the question...

I was looking in a local shop a while back, not to buy anything, but just to go look around while I was in town. I saw a cosmoline covered M1 Garand sitting amoung several other M1 Garands there. Well I had to look at it while I was there, and I asked why this one rifle was still in the cosmoline? He said it was an unissued Correct Grade Greek Return. Well, I dont think it has any papers from the CMP that go with it, so how do you know? I mean, what if he tears it down right there and shows you it has all the correct parts, but still no CMP papers? Is a person to assume that it is still a "correct Grade" or not a correct Grade? We all know people can actually put all those parts in them, and just re-apply the cosmoline. So what do you do?
Would you buy it at the 2K+ asking price (FIRM) ? I guess its always good to ask this next question...."what would the rifle be worth" (ME) near zero & (TE) near zero, without the paperwork from the CMP, providing it seems to be or looks like everything is correct? Saying perhaps original looking stock, and all parts appear to be properly marked etc,etc,etc...?

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Originally Posted by HILLBILLY-06

So what do you do?

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Call or email the CMP, give them the serial number, ask them what grade it was sold as.

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Originally Posted by Milsurp Collector

Call or email the CMP, give them the serial number, ask them what grade it was sold as.

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Yeh I called them to ask a while back, they wouldn't tell me anything unless I came down there and paid $25.00 research fee.
Since I wasn't prepaired to buy the rifle on the spot, I didn't go spend $25.00 just out of curiosity. I forgot what the serial number info was now, and would have to go back down there and look at it to write it down again. But since they wouldn't tell me before, I doubt they would now unless I got lucky and talked to somebody different.
I have also e-mailed them about one of my M1 garands before, just to find out how it was sold, they wouldn't tell me anything there either, unless I came down to pay same said fee. I guess it must depend on who you talk to? A buddy of mine said he knows someone that works there, I'll ask him if that person can find out for me one day while they're at work.

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Originally Posted by HILLBILLY-06

I was looking in a local shop a while back, not to buy anything, but just to go look around while I was in town. I saw a cosmoline covered M1 Garand sitting amoung several other M1 Garands there. Well I had to look at it while I was there, and I asked why this one rifle was still in the cosmoline? He said it was an unissued Correct Grade Greek Return. Well, I dont think it has any papers from the CMP that go with it, so how do you know? I mean, what if he tears it down right there and shows you it has all the correct parts, but still no CMP papers? Is a person to assume that it is still a "correct Grade" or not a correct Grade? We all know people can actually put all those parts in them, and just re-apply the cosmoline. So what do you do?
Would you buy it at the 2K+ asking price (FIRM) ? I guess its always good to ask this next question...."what would the rifle be worth" (ME) near zero & (TE) near zero, without the paperwork from the CMP, providing it seems to be or looks like everything is correct? Saying perhaps original looking stock, and all parts appear to be properly marked etc,etc,etc...?

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Without any confirmation from CMP you can not know if it was sold as a "correct grade". As is, without confirmation, it may just be a 'correct" rifle. Would I pay $ 2000.00 no way. Maybe $ 750.00 to $ 850.00 depending on condition.
Is it unissued ?? Who knows. The only CMP rifles I truely believe for sure that were "unissued" and worth in excess of $ 2000.00 are those uncovered at the GCA convention in Anniston in 2009. These were Greek A.F. returns and they were NOT in cosmoline. Those "unissued" rifles came with a CMP Certificate that stated "UNISSUED".

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...UNISSUED-1.jpg

Are you sure it was Cosmolene? That hasn't been used in a very long time, most of the Greek guns were covered in some type of modern orange grease. Cosmo was very dark brown and super-sticky.

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Originally Posted by bob seijas

Cosmo
Are you sure it was Cosmolene? That hasn't been used in a very long time, most of the Greek guns were covered in some type of modern orange grease. Cosmo was very dark brown and super-sticky.

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Well, it was definately super sticky because I got it all over myself looking at the rifle. I don't remember what color it was, I didn't pay any attention to that at all, sorry. However, in case I do get back down there one day, do you know what kind of stamps the wood may possibly have, or what serial number range the receiver should be in, or which manufature it would be, or definately would not be? The info you've provided so far to my questions has been awesome, that's why I like asking... everyone here seems to give the best possible answer & something we can all understand. So everyone, Thanks so far, AND.. hey, I'm real sorry I didn't notice what color that sticky grease stuff was, I didn't know there were different types?? That alone is now something I can add to a wealth of imformation... "Thanks again".

What the Sam heck. They CMP won't help a brother from Alabama out. Wow. I'd call the Governer.

Roll TIDE!!!!!! :lol:



I'm just sort of teasing. I never tried to get info about any rifles from them. I wonder if going on their forums would help you at all. Do you have the serial number?

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Originally Posted by HILLBILLY-06

Yeh I called them to ask a while back, they wouldn't tell me anything unless I came down there and paid $25.00 research fee.
Since I wasn't prepaired to buy the rifle on the spot, I didn't go spend $25.00 just out of curiosity. I forgot what the serial number info was now, and would have to go back down there and look at it to write it down again. But since they wouldn't tell me before, I doubt they would now unless I got lucky and talked to somebody different.
I have also e-mailed them about one of my M1 garands before, just to find out how it was sold, they wouldn't tell me anything there either, unless I came down to pay same said fee. I guess it must depend on who you talk to? A buddy of mine said he knows someone that works there, I'll ask him if that person can find out for me one day while they're at work.

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The only way for you to know is to submit the paperwork and pay the fee, the fee is reasonable and fair, it keeps the CMP from having to pay an employee to perform a free service that will end up costing 10's of thousands of dollars a year in time and effort ( estimate 15-30 min. per request-$50 an hr. to cover employee time-salary, benefits, etc.).

CMP is not alone, I know a major firearm manufacturer that does the same thing, and if you think they will only get a few calls a week, ha, once word got around the forums that CMP did that everyone would be checking every M1, 1903 1917 and misc. rifles just to satisfy their curiousity; someone tell me that would never happen. That may sound like a lot of money for a correct grade, it is now, but I know what I paid for mine in 2010 and I hope to sell it for a profit or gift it to a family member before I pass. And as stated earlier it's Greek grease not cosmoline, at least that's what I took off my CG HRA. Why don't you offer to split the cost with the shop owner, if he has the results it will help him as a selling point, just don't tell/show him the results until you get his $12.50.

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Originally Posted by Sarge1998

The only way for you to know is to submit the paperwork and pay the fee, the fee is reasonable and fair, it keeps the CMP from having to pay an employee to perform a free service that will end up costing 10's of thousands of dollars a year in time and effort ( estimate 15-30 min. per request-$50 an hr. to cover employee time-salary, benefits, etc.).

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I understand 100%, and I think that is is reasonable and fair.

[QUOTE=HILLBILLY-06;237313]Yeh I called them to ask a while back, they wouldn't tell me anything unless I came down there and paid $25.00 research fee.
QUOTE]

You don't have to go to Anniston, you can do this by mail. Send a check for $ 25.00, give them the serial number of the rifle and ask the grade the rifle was sold as. Mark the envelope " Request for Research"

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Originally Posted by Joe W

You don't have to go to Anniston, you can do this by mail. Send a check for $ 25.00, give them the serial number of the rifle and ask the grade the rifle was sold as. Mark the envelope " Request for Research"

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I didn't know that, and didn't ask on the phone at the time, but I live very near there and the eye candy is hard to pass up. Plus I usually find something I overlooked before. So I love going down to the store, thats no problem at all. When they'er not real buisey, you can do a lot of looking around in there and its lot of fun. I see more stuff when its less crowded too, so I dont like to go during the rush, or stand outside and wait in line. I just wait till the crowd's all gone if I can before I drive down there, I think it's awesome.

The only reason the type of preservative is important is to help guess at originality. Real Cosmolene suggests it hasn't been changed in a very long time.

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Originally Posted by bob seijas

Cosmolene
The only reason the type of preservative is important is to help guess at originality. Real Cosmolene suggests it hasn't been changed in a very long time.

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Now I really wish I had paid attention to that one detail, but when I got it all over me, all I could think of was getting thay junk off again, I never looked at what color it was. I remember getting it all over me, and wiping it on my old work shirt but it's been long since washed. I will know better next time, and when I am free and got time, I will go back down there and see if they still have it. But the good stuff usually always stays lokcked up. It only comes out when the owner is there, and even then usually upon request. I have seen some other high priced Garands there before, but they are out of my price range, so I don't ask about them very often. That one I spoke of is the only "un-issued one" that he spoke of with me at the time, I don't know where he got it? It was very good looking, I couldn't afford it at the time, and I wanted to mention it here, in case I see it again someday I will know what to look for, (Color of Cosmolene) Sorry, I must have miss- spelled that about six time already....LOL and I will have maybe some better questions to ask him, based on the good bit of info I keep getting here "Thanks to everyone" here who provided the info...
Thanks again, now you got me wanting to see it again.

If you had gotten real Cosmoline on your hands, I don't think you would have wiped it off your hands without some kind of solvent, like paint thinner.

As to grades, note that the photo of the certificate several posts above specifically states it is "Unissued" -- the words "Correct Grade" do not appear on the certificate. Without seeing any other CMP certificates in the higher grades, my guess would be that the gun shop is blowing smoke. If the rifle is a CMP rifle and is unissued, it would be graded as "Unissued" and not as "Correct." If it's Correct Grade, it's probably not unissued.

Current CMP price for Correct Grade is $1150 ... except that they've been sold out since March.

Yes, CMP follows the traditional terms: "Correct" means all the right parts, but not necessarily the original parts. They are usually guns in excellent condition that have had a few parts replaced by CMP armorers, but sometimes they are original guns that have a non-standard part on them like the HRAs with IHC sights. Originals are usually called "Collector" grade.