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1. Were the trigger guard screws used on the M1903 and M1903A3 made to identical dimensions? If not, how do you distinquish between them?
2. Were the M1903 guard screws made by SA, RIA, RA, and SC indentical? Is it possible to distinquish the maker? If so, how?
3. Were any guard screws made by civilian contractors? If so, by whom?
4. At what point in SA/RIA production was the "Parkerized" type finish implemented?
Thanks.
The rear '03 and '03-A3 are the same. No difference and I am not aware of any way to tell who made them. The front screws are different. The front screws come in "short" and "long" length. The "long" screw was made for the '03-A3 as the front screw hole is drilled all the was through the receiver. I think all screws were blued, but they did get re-built and will be seen as grey.
1903A3 scews are a little longer front and rear, not much, but enough to ruin your day, if you have a A3 screw in a 1903 that has a older thing stock.
Calif-steve has it backwards , I think. The rear screw in the '03s threaded into a blind hole. In the A3s they drilled the hole all the way through the rear tang to save time. At first they used the same rear screw , but they went to a longer screw to fill the threads to the top of the hole for a cleaner look and to keep debris out of the hole . So , the '03 screw will work in the A3 but leave threads exposed , but the A3 screw will bottom out too soon in a '03 and not tighten up.
The front screw , I can't say for sure .
Chris
(1) The rear guard screws are the same length. The M'03-A3 front guard screws are 0.1" shorter than M1903 front guard screws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolo Badge
(2) a. No.
(2) b. To some extent.
(2) c. By the length and slot.
(3) Yes. As I recall, Benrus Watch Co. may have been one of the contractors. But, I would have to consult my records to be sure.
(4) March, 1918, at RIA. December, 1918, at SA.
Hope this helps. :wave:
J.B.
Well , shoot . JB has spoken and he's the man . I was sure of what I posted . I'm going to have to pull my babies out and see what gun I was thinking of .
Sorry for any confusion and appologies to Calif-steve.
Chris
How about the lower band swivel screw and the stacking swivel screw? How can you tell a Rock Island from the others? Are the stacking swivel and lower band swivel screws different or the same screw?
I do not mean to add to a controversy but Clark Campbell in his '03 SPRINGFIELDS, indicates that the front guard screw was lengthened from 0.9" to 1.0" to correct a stripping problem encounter in training camps. He further indicated that this created a problem with the M1903 in that the front screw would sometimes "bottom out" causing severe accuracy problems with the M1903. I measured my spare guard screws and find that all rear guard screws are the same length (within manufacturing tolerances) but of the 5 front guard screws -3 are short (~0.9") while two are long (~1.0"). The part numbers were not changed so that when we were using the 03 and the 03A3 we always shortend the front guard screw so that it would not bottom out in the 03. I doubt that the government would authorize a change in length of the rear screw to improve the appearance of the 03A3 rifle. It would seem to me that the 03A3 with its drilled through holes could accomadate a longer screw than the 03 with its blind holes.
No controversy required. With all due respect, Clark Campbell was in error with regard to screw length. All WWII production M1903 and M'03-A3 rifles were factory-fitted with 0.9" screws. All pre-WWII M1903 rifles were fitted with 1.0" screws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosine26
Hope this helps.
J.B.
---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------
Rock Island and Springfield Armory swivel screws were made on the same type of machinery and are identical. WWII contractor-made replacement screws had a narrower screwdriver slot. A stacking swivel screw is slightly longer than a lower band screw, but will fit and work fine in a lower band.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyo96
Hope this helps.
J.B.
The extra-long rear screws are commerical screws. They do look a little better. They are made and sold today, Midway has them in stock as does Brownells.
Here is some more information on that long rear screw. The first guy who made them, that I know of, was dealer Bob Ruvel, from Chicago. He offered them to me via phone (in those days there was no internet to speak of). He stated they will sell to clean up the threads being seen. I did not purchase any. I have always had real ones made by both Remington and SC. Today I have some unwrapped SC's left.
Later on in the SGN I saw an ad (do not remember which dealer) claiming that the long screw was made late WWII (nonsense) to take up the threads that were not covered. He obviously purchased Ruvel's screws in wholesale.
This was circa 1990-1993. When some research was done, it may have seen rifles owned for 20 years or more which may have had that non existing screw inside. That is probably the reason why some think they were originals.
John Beard is like me. He uses Ordnance records and documents to confim what we think existed. Without confirmation I will state "I think, but cannot confirm......"