What would it mean if my stock didn't have arsenal rebuild stamps on it?

I can't find any markings anywhere on my stock except for this:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...923E2523-1.jpg

There's no P or initials or anything. And obviously this carbine is a rebuild.

Is it a fake? It's a nice stock, but it does seem a little more glossy than most I see. Or maybe that means someone sanded it finer. I don't know.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3E2523EW-1.jpg

I'm sure most of you have seen it before and maybe I'm wearing out my welcome, but I figured I'd ask anyways. It has me scratching my head.

HI, Go to page 11 in this thread. Look at the site by USAF Chief on US Carbine Maint. He states any modifications made in an oversea repair were not to carry any rebuild marking. John

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Originally Posted by JOHN42768

HI, Go to page 11 in this thread. Look at the site by USAF Chief on US Carbine Maint. He states any modifications made in an oversea repair were not to carry any rebuild marking. John

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http://jp29.org/carbineis.htm

It gives me an error.

That marking may be be for a replacement stock. If they put a new stock on it during the rebuild they may not have marked it. Also, the stock may have been damaged and replaced after the rebuild.

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Originally Posted by ABPOS

http://jp29.org/carbineis.htm

It gives me an error.

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Go to the 11th page of carbine threads, about the 8th down is us carbine maintenance, open that thread and cliick on the underlined " us carbine". If it still won't open send me a pm with your email and I'll forward it. John

Try this link instead. It worked for me. - Bob
http://jp29.org/carbinefm.htm

S-HB is a stock made for Standard Products by Hillerich & Bradsby Co. regular production. It appears to be a type 2 cut down to a type 3. Not all rebuilds were done at the armories. It well could have been done at a lower level of maintenance and as such would not be marked.

Well that is good news. So at least it looks like it's USGI. I wasn't sure.

What does "cut down" mean?

Type one ( I cut oiler hole ) and type 2 ( oval oiler hole ) were high wood stocks. The line of the stock forward of the op rod in your pic , continued rearward over the op rod. The wood in this area is very thin due to the cut needed to clear the op rod. Many broke out in service , so they went to the type 3 stock like what you have in your pic . Most type 1 & 2 stocks were modified by " cutting down " that thin rail into the configuration you have when they went through rebuild or in the field if they were split out.
Chris

So what type of oiler hole does a type III have? Because if I'm reading this correctly, you're saying I have a type II that's cut down to the low wood position, and you can tell this by the oiler hole. But is the oiler hole different on a type III that would distinguish this one?

98% of your questions would be immediately answered by Riesch's book.

Don't have that one. I am reading Canfield's right now though. But it takes time......... I apologize if I shouldn't have asked.

Looks like a very nice stock. As stated production run for Std Pro.Type one;I cut highwood.
Type two; oval cut highwood. type three; same oval cut, low wood. As stated most type two have been cut to low wood configuration. Depending on where modifications and upgrades are done depends on who marked them or if marked at all. Or all external markes on stock have been sanded off . I hope this helps. And I hope you get them preforming as they should.GK

Type 1 stocks have an I cut slot for the oiler and high wood stock. Type 2 stocks have what's called an oval oiler slot and has high wood stock. The type 3 is the same as a type 2, but has low wood cut stock. Type 1 and 2 stocks were converted into type 3 stocks by cutting the high wood from beside the slide on the stock. Your stock is one of these.

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Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill

Type 1 stocks have an I cut slot for the oiler and high wood stock. Type 2 stocks have what's called an oval oiler slot and has high wood stock. The type 3 is the same as a type 2, but has low wood cut stock. Type 1 and 2 stocks were converted into type 3 stocks by cutting the high wood from beside the slide on the stock. Your stock is one of these.

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I'm lost now. Because it's been said that type II and type III both have oval oiler hole. Mine doesn't "appear" to have been changed to low wood by looking at it. Meaning I don't see any marks that would indicate such. Although if they sanded it well, you might not see it. Maybe that's why you're saying it's an altered type II. Lack of any markings means they might've sanded it? That would make sense now. Because when I look at where the recess is for the "low wood" portion, it looks like it goes fluidly the whole way down back to the receiver. I guess I could put a pic up to show. But the sanding part would make sense. Lack of crossed cannons and what not.

Your stock is either type 2 or 3. I think type 3. But the picture is dark. SP Ordnance stasmp is small and when you learn where to look, you may be able to see part of it. There is a lot to learn with carbines.

Arsenals have had a lot of practice rebuilding guns. Most of the rebuilds will look like brand new prouction weapons UNLESS you know exactly what to look for that they did differenty than the original mfg . did. Not better nor worse , but different . Stampings , finish , upgrades , etc. If your stock was a type 2 and they got ahold of it and cut her down to a type 3 , unless your OEM had a specific detail on thier type 2s that was not on thier type 3s that you knew to go by and that the arsenal did not remove , prob'ly 97-99% of the time you would not be able to tell. In this case , cutting down the rail , you can , rarely but can , come across a stock with a hint of rail left that would tip you off.
Chris

Canfield's book says they started low wood at 2,090,000. My receiver is a 2,05x,xxx. So, I almost wonder if it isn't original. Obviously it's a discrepancy of 40,000, so maybe it's not likely. But like you said, maybe when they rebuild them they try to pair parts that were "close" to being right. Maybe the fit is better than. I don't know. I'm still trying to see the marking on the right side, and can't see anything. But the S-HB, is clearly there in the oiler slot. So..... I guess it's all good. Actually I think more to the point of what you said was that if they sanded it down, they did such a good job, I wouldn't notice anything out of place. That is probably true. I guess that could explain why I can't see the other markings. Because I'm pretty sure they didn't sand in the oiler slot.

I'm with Bubba though, there is a TON to learn about these things. :surrender:

Judging by what I can see, you have a typical Type III stock. Eyes/hands - on would be rquired to tell if it is actually a converted Type II, but I wouldn't expect that according to the serial number.

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Originally Posted by firstflabn

98% of your questions would be immediately answered by Riesch's book.

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ABPOS:

Welcome to the Forum. You apparently are very interested in M1 Carbines. Like the man inferred earlier, you NEED to buy 'U.S M1 Carbines, Wartime Production', 7th Edition, by Craig Riesch. You can get it on Amazon for about $20 delivered (recently, I think) and it will be the best $20 you will ever spend on this affliction. There are books considered by the fans to be better and there are books considered to be worse, but I think Riesch is the handiest, easiest and clearest to understand and use, with minimal arguable errors. It may not give you the detail of some more expensive books but you don't have to read it three or four times to figure out what he is saying. Almost every question you have asked is answered by Riesch in language even a novice can understand. Buy it, love it, live it. And start saving up for 'War Baby', LOL. Semper Fi.

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Originally Posted by ChipS

Like the man inferred earlier, you NEED to buy 'U.S M1 Carbines, Wartime Production', 7th Edition, by Craig Riesch. You can get it on Amazon for about $20 delivered (recently, I think) and it will be the best $20 you will ever spend on this affliction.

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I didn't realize the 7th Edition was out, Thanks. Just ordered it.

Thank you ChipS. I might just do that. So you guys don't think much of Canfield's book?

I have to admit something though, and I've said this before but I'll run the risk of saying it again. I have kind of a love/ hate relationship with my Carbine. On paper and in theory, the M-1 Carbine was and is my all time favorite shoulder fired weapon of history. I'm a smaller guy, I love the handiness of it, and I think the cartridge is good enough. And it's quite possible my Grandpa carried one in WWII. Although I'm not sure about that. But furthermore, it's a hoot to shoot.

But there is a flipside to that. Once I got mine, it's been a battle to actually like it because of the malfs I got. And there seems like there are so many areas to figure out. Like are the mags good, because they're all so old, and is the headspace OK? Is my barrel shot out? Is my ME and TE anywhere near what it should be. How about that crown, looks like one land might be a little worn down, which might account for it's strange way to shoot right and then shoot left at distance. Which it does and is weird.

And then the malfs themselves. And the stupid bolt tool busted after the third or fourth use, which really irritated me. And now, someone is telling me that my brand new recoil spring that I bought from Fulton, if my memory serves me correctly, is 1/4" too short. When I know I haven't shot more than 1k rounds through it. Maybe more like 400-500. And all these parts, if you need a part and buy a USGI part, I don't know if it will be so used that it's no good also. After emptying your wallet for it.

It is all sort of overwhelming and frustrating. And if I wanted to trust a gun for hunting, plinking, Self Defense, SHTF, my carbine gets a ZERO confidence. I guess there is a reason AR's are so popular. I mean, I've shot the crap out of mine and don't get malfs. I got malfs early on when I starting shooting because I had some old mags. Well, easily remedied. Buy good USGI mags and feed it. I mean, if I can't get my carbine to run on a range, what is a good for? Looking at??? And I'm just not all that interested in guns that don't work. So then my thought is, do I buy one of these repros from Auto Ordnance or Fulton to fulfill my desires. Well, fulton's cost more than I think I'm willing to spend and then I'm not sure about the quality of the Auto Ordnance one. Well, should I buy a different USGI barrel and receiver. Don't know if they'd be any better than the ones I have after dropping a ton of dough on it.

So...... Maybe it's not meant to be. My 03A3 and Garand are boringly good shooters. My garand took a little bit of tweaking, but once it was done, it's like a tank. But I much prefer a smaller, lighter, handier weapon. Even at the range.

What to do....

I don't know.... I'm about ready to chuck it. If I can't get it to run good after this go around, I'll really be frustrated with it. And I know some of you might be saying, well just go shoot your AR's. Well, what I REALLY want is a carbine that works. Hehehhehehe

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Originally Posted by mjanway

I didn't realize the 7th Edition was out, Thanks. Just ordered it.

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The 6th edition had a table at the back showing 18 changes that were made from the 5th edition. Let us know how many changes this new edition has when you get it. - Bob

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Originally Posted by USGI

The 6th edition had a table at the back showing 18 changes that were made from the 5th edition. Let us know how many changes this new edition has when you get it. - Bob

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I was very curious about that myself. My 6th Edition was looking pretty worn and was accumulating quite a few handwritten notes and corrections so it was good timing. It would be nice if there was a War Baby III out in time for the holidays.

I checked out the table at the back of the 7th edition, and there are 11 items listed. The table is on page 224 and it can be viewed on Amazon.com. The cover of the new edition uses the term "expanded" rather than "revised and expanded." I think I will look over a copy at the next gun show and decide whether to purchase. The description of the new book on Amazon.com is as follows:

The 7th edition of this best-selling bible of the World War II M1 Carbine has been revised and expanded to include new information regarding adjustable rear sights and their period of use, additional manufacturer's codes, new information regarding the importance of rebuilt M1 and M1A1 carbines, and Israeli, Italian reimported carbines, and a new table showing manufacturer's shipment's by dates.